V-8 project

[TurboFource]

Thanks Kram. What is the torque rating of the 5 speed?

[kram350kram]

About 285 ft/lbs. A stock 289 is 312ft/lbs, my motor might be a bit more, maybe in the 340 range, just hope Porsche underrated its capacity. The Porsche flat 6 motor puts out 230ft/lbs. Might get a spare sometime just for parts.

[BDA]

I guess your (only?) other option is a ZF from a Pantera.

[kram350kram]

Looked at many... Audi O1E, Porsche 6 speeds, other Porsche, Gehrig and ZF'S. All had their draw backs, price, size, availabity, etc... but the real issue for me was keeping the stock Europa wheel base and chassis, meaning the half shafts had to align with the stock rear bearings/trailing arm/shock location. This meant measuring forward from transaxle output hubs to front of transaxle bell housing, then adapter plate thickness and then front of engine to the V in chassis.  All of the larger capacity transaxles required a pretty thick adapter plate (usually 1.25" thick) which moved the engine further forward into the V of the chassis. I barely fit the 289 with a 3/4" adapter plate with the axles aligned with the stock Europa rear axle centerline.  As it is, the front of the engine protrudes into the interior some 6". I'm not joking when I say fractions of an inch mattered... length, height of engine and trans, alignment of half shafts, etc... all to keep the wheel base stock, the interior somewhat stock looking, the ground clearance maximum from oil pan to rear of transaxle and not changing the suspension or doing major surgery to the stock chassis. Upon review and prior to starting this project it seems most such conversions to V-8's before this effort either; lengthen the wheel base and or did major modifications to the chassis by grafting on other car front and or rear suspension units or building all new frames.  I mention all this for others who might contemplate doing a similar undertaking and wanting to retain as much of the original car as possible.

[kram350kram]

Picture interior V-8

[BDA]

Well you've exposed my ignorance of the different high torque transaxles! I would have thought that with all the things you're going to do to beef up that car for your V-8, stretching the rear a few inches would be a minor mod. Another guy who shoehorned a V-8 into his Europa stretched both the front and rear! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g67HHs0FDMM

[Richard48Y]

Personally, if I were doing this I would have gone with the 215 BOP/R.
Kind of like what Lotus once did.
I actually built a stroked and bored 333" BOP mated to a Renault box many years ago and it worked fine.

That was long ago, back when Noble Motorsport were still selling several model kit cars and the Renault trans were easy to find.

My S2 is the replacement for the car pictured.
Not as much raw power but it should be similar fun.

[BDA]

Weren't you talking about an engine? Is there an engine in that picture?

[GavinT]

No BDA, there's no engine. I think Richard accidentally posted something from his private collection. 

I'm still waiting for someone to fit a Rover V8 using Lotus 907 4-valve heads.
Apparently the heads bolt on though it'd need a belt drive system.

[Richard48Y]

RE: Lotus 907 heads on BOP/R blocks.

Many have started that conversion.
A sandwich plate is required to move the head bolts and coolant passages around, the cylinder sleeves have to pass through the sandwich plate.
Theoretically do-able and I know a couple of guys who have taken it a long way.
But none that have completed a running engine.

Probably simpler to get some of our OZ members to send us a set of Repco Brabham heads! 

[kram350kram]

I did look at a 215 but it was wider and longer and I didn't want to deal with the distributor issue, potentially in and under my right armpit, LOL.  I thought of using a crank fire ignition but impossible to get to once installed into the chassis. Richard48Y, do you remember the specific transaxle you used in the Noble?   

[Bainford]

I remain impressed with your project, and quite admire your determination to not modify the wheelbase, or significantly modify the frame. Bit by bit, it's coming around.

[Richard48Y]

Transaxle was from a PRV V6 car and basically the same as used in the DeLorean.
At the time they were plentiful and cheap.
Now difficult to find and expensive.

[GavinT]

Dunno, Richard.
The Repco Brabham was developed on the F85 Olds 6-stud block. Spare heads are likely thin on the ground.
Rover blocks were a more conventional 4-stud per cylinder, and it's these that apparently accept the 907 heads. Later Range Rover blocks are different again re the head studs.

The theory is that the Vauxhall slant four engine was a development from half of a Rover V8 and as such, bore spacings, head studs are the common DNA. And we know the 907 head was originally developed on that Vauxhall block and even Bedford van bearings fit. I recall there were also rally cars that strapped the 907 head onto their vauxhall blocks.

There was a guy on the old Yahoo list who'd offered up the heads.
Interestingly, the 907 heads are also symmetrical in that they can be arranged so that, on a V8, all the exhaust ports are on the outside. Cams can be rearranged similarly. I just reckon it's intriguing.

But anyway, kram350kram says it's too wide and long, so there goes that idea. The 907 was not noted as a 'small' engine, either.
I think Colin added something like four inches to the the GKN-47, so yeah.
Anyway, my apologies for straying from the topic.

[Richard48Y]

Might need a new thread.
But Buick/Olds blocks are interchangeable, just add the other head studs in needed.
The Lotus heads are NOT "Bolt-on", a lot of work is required to adapt them.
As stated above, enough that despite years of work no one I know has ever completed a running conversion.
For future reference, the BOP/R can be shortened considerably by using the water pump, front cover, and pulleys from a transverse FWD application.
A Rover front cover can be used to eliminate the distributor.

I seem to recall the BOP/R conversion being almost semi-common for the Lotus Elite type cars a few years ago.