Drive Shafts tcs

[EuropatcSPECIAL]

Good evening all.
                           my car has what I believe are the spyder drive shafts. Inboard is the u/j out board are those rubber donuts. What is the quickest fix to go back to u/j's inboard and outboard. The car is on a spyder chassi
thanking you in anticipation
Stuart

[Roger]

If you have doughnuts you must also have, I guess, upper wishbones or something to provide upper lateral location.
In standard form the driveshaft is fixed length and provides the location, but it can't do that with a doughnut. So either you'll have to install sliding splines, or cv joints that slide, or revert the suspension to original Europa.
Do you know what you have now?

[EuropaTC]

It might be a bigger job than you think to go back to OEM, but without seeing your car I can't say for sure.

Spyder made a rear suspension conversion for the Europa and I seem to think I've seen at least two versions of it. IIRC the first version welded some brackets to your existing chassis to fit a top link above the driveshaft and to take the load off the driveshaft and allow it to work, they fitted rubber doughnuts as in the Elan. At the same time they offered a replacement chassis which would take either Lotus OEM or their own twin link arrangement, which sounds like what you have there.

They do have a version which uses a custom built rear hub carrier with a similar top link to their first version but with inboard joint being a CV joint instead of a rubber doughnut.  They have a picture on their website showing it on a Zetec conversion they've done (included below).

So, where are we ? Well, if you have the original aluminium hub carriers then you'd need the driveshafts and inboard yoke to revert to OEM. If you have the full blown conversion with Spyder carrier then it is a much more expensive job to go OEM because you'd need carriers as well. 

But why change to OEM ? Unless you want to take part in concourse competitions where originality is paramount, then arguably you have a more useful set-up. Several owners have deliberately changed to twin link designs and it also allows great flexibility in gearbox options because not all Renault boxes will take the side loads of the Lotus design through their output shafts/bearings.

Personally I'd retain what you have and talk to spyder about the possibility of modifying your driveshafts to take a CV joint. The doughnut was an odd choice at the time given that a lot of Elan owners were moving to CV or sliding spline UJ joint driveshafts to get away from variable quality doughnuts.

Brian

[4129R]

OEM ?

Original Europa Manufacture ?

[EuropaTC]

OEM ?

Original Europa Manufacture ?

    I'll have to remember that one, it sounds so much better than Original Equipment Manufacture.

hmmm, I wonder if I could get away with changing the wikipedia page on the definition   

[EuropatcSPECIAL]

gents thank you for your time and trouble. Im not sure of what set up I have. I known the chassi is Spyder. I just don't like rubber in the drive chain. I got rid of the donuts on my Elan. If they could be seen as a benefit in so much that they system is more accepting of other renault gear boxes what is the service life of the donuts on average? I only have this picture of the rear at the moment which isn't much help I'm afraid
all the best
Stuart
ALL THE BEST
STUART

[BDA]

I agree with EuropaTC. The original Europa rear suspension used the half shafts for an upper suspension arm. This is acceptable, inexpensive, and a bit lighter than alternatives. Spyder offered an A-arm rear suspension, partly to get away from that situation. Richard and Banks provides a twin-link rear suspension for similar reasons (I am not implying that the geometry of the Spyder and Banks units are not improved). To revert to the stock half shafts would also require you to revert to the stock (or similar) rear suspension.

Both the Spyder and Banks systems are improvements on the original design. I would either leave it the way it is or replace the donuts with CV joints.

[EuropaTC]

 

Ahh, Stuart, so you are the guy who bought that car !  Did you know it featured on Pistonheads with one of the previous owners chipping in about it ?

http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&f=14&t=1474622&mid=53383&nmt=74+europa%3F

So, what do you have ?  Well personally I think you've got the better solution there. From what I can see I'd guess you have the proper Spyder conversion with fabricated uprights, but an early one if you have the doughnut in the driveline. My advice would be to stick with what you've got because I can see several advantages, the main one being that with their design the suspension loads feed directly into the chassis rather than via the gearbox/engine mounts. So it should be a more modern and rigid solution although no doubt some would prefer the OEM design.

I've included an old PR photo of their set-up because at one time I toyed with the idea. In the end it was just too much work, but if I were replacing the chassis then I'd go for it.

I've also gone for CV joints on my Elan so I understand your feelings. I think I'd call Spyder and ask them about the possibility of conversion to CV joints, although from looking at the kit I think it will require outboard shafts as well as driveshaft work.  But the doughnuts might be longer lasting in that application, with the Elan there's a lot of deflection from bump to droop whereas on that set-up you might not have so much ?

Brian

[4129R]

IIRC, it was advertised for £22,950.

I like the colour. IMHO the Europa TCS looks good in Black, Monaco White and L12 Lagoon Blue all with gold pin stripes. 

[EuropatcSPECIAL]

Good evening all,
                           Brian and co thank you for your trouble. I will give Spyder a ring and just check out what's what. I bought the car but didn't pay his asking price. There are so few around and those that are for sale are over the top and have been on the market for months. I know the car was black but that was not the original colour. It has got a good history file with it and of those that I have seen it was the best. I also have an add in this current edition of club Lotus to which I received 3 replies. I am impressed with the car to date. It will be a work in progress as I gradually renew things. The thing that I found when looking for a car was no one has any receipts or history or they come up with 'well it just needs this or that'. The car has suffered from lack of tlc. I attempted to grease her up at the weekend but all the grease nipples had rusted up so replaced them. Just stupid things really.
One point, are there any regional meet ups?
thank you all again for your help very much appreciated
all the best
Stuart
ps  just organising the pin striping Im hoping a chap near Snaith can do. No one in this town wants to know.

[4129R]

For an England geography check, I am in Norfolk and Brian of Europa TC is in Lincolnshire. We are not too far away from each other.

[EuropatcSPECIAL]

Good evening 4129 r, It would be good to meet up even if just a couple of times a year.  I'm Probably 35 miles from Lincoln. I appreciate Lincolnshire is a big county with a poor network of roads but something must be doable. Have there been any meet ups in the past?
all the best
Stuart

[Ferrotus]

ps  just organising the pin striping Im hoping a chap near Snaith can do. No one in this town wants to know.

Actually you can save a lot of bother by just using the gold pin-stripe tapes that are usually available in your local motor factors (or ebay etc). They're easy to apply and where the Specials used to have the corners supplied separately in the transfer kits, you can simply ease the tape around to form a corner aided with a LITTLE heat.

When I last did the job I used a roll of tape that had 3 sizes - the two outers were exactly right ;-) (the inner was about an inch wide so was scrap) Basically got two lengths of the correct width for the price of one roll.  Longevity? well. the tape on my Lotus 7 has now lasted 30 years without fading very much.

[EuropatcSPECIAL]

Hello Ferrotus
                      no one appears to be able to get any . I have seen it on e-bay. I thought I had found someone in Snaith to put them on. When I told him it was a Europa he asked if it was 'like those JPS ones' I told him yes and I have not heard from him since. I dont give in easily
all the best
Stuart

[Ferrotus]

Hello Ferrotus
                      no one appears to be able to get any .

This pretty much the same as the one I used on my last Europa (before the Dino conversion project): http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/GOLD-5mm-X-22mm-X-5mm-X-10-metres-02221-G-COACHLINE-PIN-STRIPE-PINSTRIPES-TAPE-/191526630656?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item2c97e07500
It's a doddle to apply and if you go wrong it's easily removed. The trick is not to stretch it (except maybe as you form the tight corners on the bonnet and nose). I noticed that a friendly owner has given you the link to the factory dimensions so that's one problem out of the way. As I mentioned, Lotus used to supply the stripes as a kit. I think at the time the kit was around £30 (mid 70's) so that's why I went the tape route!! If you look at the dimension pics, you'll see that most of the corner pieces are a separate transfer.  I had a lot left so that's why my 7 got the treatment as well ;-)