Redrilling hubs for different bolt patterns? And a brake question

[Pete Gossett]

It appears there isn't much of a selection of wheels available in the stock 4 x 3-3/4", and certainly not much wider than 5.5". Has anyone successfully redrilled their hubs for 4 x 100mm? What about 4 x 4.5"? If so, did you redril the drums and rotors, find substitutes with the new pattern, or use this as an opportunity to upgrade brakes?

Also, speaking of brakes, I came across an old link on BaT for a c-list Europa ad that mentions upgrading to a Datsun master cylinder and removing the boosters. Is anyone familiar with this swap?

[cal44]

Pete,

For brakes, http://www.banks-europa.co.uk/welcome.htm

That was suggested to me by one of the members of the Golden Gate Lotus Club.  He raced Europa's for years.

As for wheels, I am staying with the TC aluminum.  Currently I am experimenting by bead blasting and doing a wet and dry 500 sanding on the fins and the furthest edge of the wheel.  This is being done by hand so it will take a while.  Then it is off to the shop for a clear powder coat.

In my un-edumacated mind unless someone is just bleeding horsepower, to wide of wheel can be less than a desired result as handling can suffer.  I think the ability to corner with a little tail out is sometimes helpful. 

[EuropaTC]

Pete

Before you drill out the hubs, are you aware that you can get bolt on adapters to change the PCD ? This is the sort of thing, the ad is on UK Ebay but I'm sure you'll have suppliers locally.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Wheel-Hub-Adapters-MGF-MGTF-18mm-Alloy-Mike-Satur-/160811916553?pt=UK_Cars_Parts_Vehicles_Wheels_tyre_Trims_Trims_ET&fits=Model%3AMGF&hash=item2571231d09

By using something like that, you can fit quite a range of aftermarket wheels, plus you gain extra track !

If you want a bolt on wheel without adapters, then the MGF and Lotus Elise S1 have the same PCD as the Europa and so you can fit those wheels. They use a larger stud/nut than the standard ones, so you also need to change the studs to match. Easy & cheap, most people use landrover studs.  Using MGF wheels (6x15) is quite a common trick over here for people with Triumph Spitfires & GT6's, it's a relatively cheap way to fit wider wheels and also go up from the 13" dia. ones. 

In fact I have a set in my workshop now which I plan to trial at some point, but I have a few other jobs which take precedence. When I get around to it I'll do a write up (with pictures) for the forum.

Brian

[Mecky]

Hi Pete,

we removed the master cylinder and booster and installed a Porsche 911 master cylinder instead. Because of that, we had to arrange a two-circle braking system and we used steel-flex brake lines. I think a two-circle braking system is a very usefull safety improvement, especially for our S2 race car.

This swap was very good for the front braking. The disc brakes work very well, but there is not enough braking fluid brought to the rear wheel cylinders. Because of that, the drums work very late (when the front brakes already brake quiet hard).  You have to push the pedal very deep to make the rear drums decelerate good. I am quiet sure that this swap is not recommendable for a road car. It is ok for a race car, but even on race track we are not completely happy with the rear braking.

[Pete Gossett]

Thanks for the replies.

This will mainly be a street-driven autocross car, so I'm thinking 7" width for race tires(which will likely involve cutting the wheel openings and possibly flares). I've read about Miata brake conversions too, and since 4 x 100 wheels are abundant and cheap, I thought it might be worthwhile.

I've seen those bolt pattern adaptors(though not for 3.85" -> 100mm in the US), but I was worried I'd need a wheel with a larger offset, negating the benefit of going to a more common pattern.

On a related note, I've seen pictures of Europas running ARE Libre wheels, so I assume they were available in 4 x 3.75"? I've never seen any advertised though.

[cal44]

I will be looking to be corrected if I am wrong so here goes.

American Racing at one time made the Libre wheel, but no longer.  In fact, looking at Americans wheels on line........maybe they should start again

There a copies of the Libre wheels.  I forget who sells them.  I always like real  Minilites. Ben is running Cosmics (no longer made), I always like those. 

Picking a wheel today is a pain because it is tough to beat the old designs. 

The makers come out with new designs and I remain un-inspired.

If you want to go high buck then this guy makes custom wheels, a little out of my league.
http://psvintagewheels.com/products.html

[3929R]

...mentions upgrading to a Datsun master cylinder and removing the boosters. Is anyone familiar with this swap?

On my TCS I removed the boosters and swapped in a Datsun F10 master cylinder following the directions found here- http://lotus-europa.com/manuals/misc/brakes/nissan_f10_mc.htm
more info for the S2 here http://lotus-europa.com/manuals/misc/brakes/EuropaS2MC.html.  It was simple enough that I could do it.  The biggest complication is rerouting the brake lines to the other side of the MC.  With a flaring tool and bending tool, this was not too bad to accomplish.  I am happy with my results, though I never drove the car with the boosters intact so I can't compare. 





At the same time I replaced the stock rubber brake hoses with Goodridge braided steel hoses that I ordered from TireRack

[cal44]

Nice work................

Mike

[benbeames]

I too have the Datson master cylinder. I really couldn't tell the difference in feel between it and the original girling, but it is lighter and doesn't leak my brake fluid all over the driveway, so I changed to it.

I have the same problem with my back brakes not keeping up, even with new slave cylinders and shoes.  So I installed the steel brake flex lines in the rear only to try to get the backs to better balance. I've never had any trouble getting the fronts to lock up. I still can't get the rears to, but the car stops well at this point. Not amazingly, but well.

And yes I have cosmic 13 x 6 wheels. One of the bits of evidence that a previous owner raced my car a little is that the wheels, combined witha tiny bit of relieving of the fiberglass in the wheel wells allows my S2 to run 205/60r13 tires at all four corners without rubbing

If you have money, you can always get racing aluminum wheels made to any size/bolt pattern/offset you want.   Ahhh, if only I had money. . . .

[Pete Gossett]

Great info, thanks!

[cal44]

Pete,

I forgot to mention VTO wheels.  The main biz is located in Prescott.

http://www.vtowheels.com/

[benbeames]

I like those VTO 13 x 7's!  I may have to get in touch with them later this year.