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[rascott]

thanks for that offer, and i may hit you up for that bargain.
i don't have much documentation on this tandem cylinder/lever arrangement, and don't believe the disassembly directions.
got the actuator part of things cleaned up and even painted some of it.
i wonder what comes in a rebuild kit these days.
the circlip can't be the correct one, and i think a washer was split and added to try to keep the plunger rod in place.
also- i thought the forward reservoir tube was poked into the m/c thru a rubber grommet, but it had a wire clip instead.
perhaps i've already beat it up enough to throw away, but i want to see what the bore looks like.

[EuropaTC]

The split washer does look like a previous owner mod. All the ones I've seen have just had the circlip resting on that domed washer. Maybe it was an attempt to pre-load the m/cylinder because they thought they'd got too much pedal travel before things started happening ?

If the bore is shot you can get it sleeved. New ones are either rare or expensive  (but not....   one milllllllionnnn dollars    ) which is why I adapted a Spitfire tandem m/cyl for my car. 

Brian

[rascott]

i googlewebed the number on the side and got a lot of references to a 7/8" bore for 1967-70 mk2 cortina.
it has a valve in the top that has refused to move, so i still can't get the piston arrangement out.
mabe i need to confirm proper sizing?
this could be another adaptation all together, and i was assuming it was original.
the triumph reservoir seems real different?
why do i end up taking everything apart?

[EuropaTC]

Yep, the Triumph one I used did have a different reservoir. In the Spitfire/GT6 it's mounted on an angled bulkhead so in that orientation it's "right" and the top is level. The gubbins underneath is just a girling tandem cylinder, the one I picked was a 0.7" bore which was the standard item on my (UK) car.  It's not an ideal alternative for you guys but worked for me because I wanted to retain the remote reservoir mounted inside the front bonnet area. There's a thread on the tech. forum about it.

I've got to be honest, if you can rebuild yours with a kit, or get it re-sleeved, that's got to be the best solution. It wasn't an option for me because our UK cars nearly all came with single circuit brake systems and I wanted a tandem system so I needed to buy something new.
Brian

[jbcollier]

Check you reservoir as well.  They get brittle with age and can crack.  They are also made of unobtainium.  The Triumph m/c mentioned above is a good alternative and readily available.

[Grumblebuns]

thanks for that offer, and i may hit you up for that bargain.
i don't have much documentation on this tandem cylinder/lever arrangement, and don't believe the disassembly directions.
got the actuator part of things cleaned up and even painted some of it.
i wonder what comes in a rebuild kit these days.
the circlip can't be the correct one, and i think a washer was split and added to try to keep the plunger rod in place.
also- i thought the forward reservoir tube was poked into the m/c thru a rubber grommet, but it had a wire clip instead.
perhaps i've already beat it up enough to throw away, but i want to see what the bore looks like.

If the split washer is a larger diameter than the original washer, perhaps the pushrod came from a MC with a slightly smaller bore. To keep the pushrod in place the PO used a larger split washer? You can always fabricate your own pushrod with the correct size retaining washer. Pegasus offers Girling style MC pushrods and get the clevis from McMaster-Carr. In my picture, the mushroom head was ground off to fit an alternate MC.

For the plastic reservoir, which is NLA a long time ago, you can try to soak the MC in hot water in order to soften the front nipple and carefully and evenly pry it out. Most likely, you'll tear the plastic trying to extract the reservoir because of the internal wire clip.

The last time I ordered a MC rebuild kit, the seals came in a plastic baggy with minimal replacement parts, just the seals, tipping valve and various rubber gasket/washers.

Joji Tokumoto
Fallbrook, Ca

 

[rascott]

i recognize the pushrod picture- i read your courier experience. i thought the travel limiter innovative- gotta love it.
3/4" is same as stock tandem bore?
suppose 7/8" would reduce pedal travel(?)and make pedal more sensitive(?), or am i missing the physics.

i was able to pry off the reservoir, and think it still useable, but am wondering if i should proceed with this unit.

[jbcollier]

A larger m/c reduces pedal travel, increases the force required and makes brake modulation more difficult.

[Grumblebuns]

I'm not sure what the cost of re-sleeving a MC currently is, but if I was going to do it all over again with a replacement for the stock MC for the S2, I would go with the Spitfire MC. Pretty much a bolt on affair. The only complication is to re-route the lines to the other side, no big deal.

When I removed the leaky boosters from my TCS, braking force required to stop was unacceptable, almost dangerous with the stock MC. I'm thinking of swapping to a MC with the S2 bore size. 

[rascott]

i need to give this a few more coats of looking at.
looks like i have some parts a desperate cortina owner could use, but probably not.
a stock replacement would be a shame, considering  what i'm dealing with, and far better used in a restoration(rather than rescue) project.
i've looked thru a lot of paper, and fallen down the goggleweb rabbit hole a few times, looking for the bore dia. of the stock tandem master cylinder.
i suspect it is close to 11/16", but gather 3/4"(courier, f10 mods) works o k.
how does the triumph fit in there? must research..........
hmmm. once again, i don't know what i'm doing......

[jbcollier]

I went with 0.70" m/c in front of stock brakes and am very happy with the results.

[rascott]

I went with 0.70" m/c in front of stock brakes and am very happy with the results.

thank you.
i know more better now.
i am examining options, and will see if that helps.
a spitfire tandem w/remote reservoir sounds "neat".
mabe some early japanese application that hasn't been tried yet....
gonna hafta think about it for a couple of weeks.

[EuropaTC]

The 0.7" was OEM over in the UK with the servo fitted, but a single circuit with the remote reservoir. I've used both 0.7" & 0.75" on my car with standard brakes and the 0.75" does give shorter pedal travel as you'd imagine. When I removed the servo I went back to 0.7" for lower pedal pressures.

As background, I've used this Spitfire m/cyl on the Europa with standard brakes and then with a rear disc conversion, both without servo fitted.   I've also got one on my Elan which originally had the Girling type 14 front calipers and rear discs with the same piston diameter as the Europa conversion I used, and as you'd expect it worked fine.   

Now the Elan has larger front caliper pistons (Girling 16PB calipers, 2.125" front pistons against 1.89" on the Girling 14 series) and strangely enough it's an even better pedal feel despite technically needing to move more fluid.

The downside is that for you guys the pipes exit on the wrong side of the cylinder. Fine for RHD cars though !

The remote reservoir does make life easier in terms of top-up & general checking. If you're changing then it's straightforward to add a low level warning light at the same time, it all slots neatly in above the radiator.

Brian

[Nitwit]

Richard,
    I'm really late to this party so I'll start with welcome to the committable ward.  At 63 I'm challenged just to see under the dash, LOL. It sounds like you're getting good information and JAE is a great place when one can't find a part in someone's garage. I have what is left of 41 years of used Europa parts. Sorry but my beautiful S2 peddles are going into my S1.
  Whit
Vista, CA

[Grumblebuns]

The 0.7" was OEM over in the UK with the servo fitted, but a single circuit with the remote reservoir. I've used both 0.7" & 0.75" on my car with standard brakes and the 0.75" does give shorter pedal travel as you'd imagine. When I removed the servo I went back to 0.7" for lower pedal pressures.

As background, I've used this Spitfire m/cyl on the Europa with standard brakes and then with a rear disc conversion, both without servo fitted.   I've also got one on my Elan which originally had the Girling type 14 front calipers and rear discs with the same piston diameter as the Europa conversion I used, and as you'd expect it worked fine.   

Now the Elan has larger front caliper pistons (Girling 16PB calipers, 2.125" front pistons against 1.89" on the Girling 14 series) and strangely enough it's an even better pedal feel despite technically needing to move more fluid.

The downside is that for you guys the pipes exit on the wrong side of the cylinder. Fine for RHD cars though !

The remote reservoir does make life easier in terms of top-up & general checking. If you're changing then it's straightforward to add a low level warning light at the same time, it all slots neatly in above the radiator.

Brian

Brian,

Looking at the area where the MC would be fitted on RHD Europas, I can see why remote reservoirs are used. There is simply no room for a MC with integral reservoir in that area due to the radiator being in the way.

For braking comparison, I have the stock Girling 0.70" MC fitted to one S2, a Courier 0.75" MC fitted a second S2 and a Nissan F10 MC 0.75"? fitted to a TCS. All three brake just fine, just differences in feel. The S2 with Courier MC may feel a bit harder than the Girling. The Nissan seems to have the best "feel". All this may be due to differences in pads fitted.

Joji TOkumoto
FAllbrook, CA