Europa S1A vs S1B

[Bainford]

Hi all

Can anyone fill me in on the primary differences between a Series 1A and a 1B?

A friend contacted me the other day saying he was going to check out a Europa S2 project, and was looking for a bit of advice, values, etc. He emailed me again today and said the car was an S1, and he thinks he may not be interested in it. Well, I might be. The last thing I need right now is another project, but I would love an S1, so it might worth a look. I find some of the info online (what little I could find) to be conflicting.

Cheers

[EuropaTC]

I can understand the feelings, I also have plenty of toys to play with but if I found an S1 lying around I'd be tempted to build somewhere dry to put it until I could get around to it !  I'm assuming you've done the usual google searches and as I've only ever seen one S1 in the plastic I can't be of much practical use. I do have these bookmarks which might give a few clues;

http://www.wizerd.nl/Lotus46Register/reg46.html

http://www.lotus-europa.com/registry.html

Out of curiosity I tried Jerry's site with the searchable knowledgebase and came up with a neat list in post from 2004 by Ray Bisordi which listed the changes - post #38883.

Personally I'd place more confidence on chassis numbers because after such a long time it's very likely that cars will have been altered to reflect the later models, and let's face it, you only have to look at this forum to see how we change our cars.

The only book I have solely dedicated to the Europa is the one by Paul Robinshaw & Dave Francis and they seem to lump all the 1966-68 production under "S1". They do list the production changes against chassis numbers up to 0645 where the Type 54 apparently came in.  If you don't have that I can scan & post it up.

If you go and look at it, remember 
Brian

edit to add - just thinking, wasn't it something about rear light units changing that happened on the S1 ? maybe that marked the difference between S1a & b ?  I just checked and according to the Robinshaw book that happened at 0542 with a modified bodyshell  but still classed as S1 before they introduced the type 54 at 0645. That seems a reasonable "change" point ?

[Serge]

I'm not an S1A or B specialist, so these are just guesses, I don't have to robinshaw book near me, but that book is a good indication of production changes.

I've seen three S1s in the flesh (#2, #40 and #70) (but none of them are A or Bs) so I have a good background in those, but even in 40 cars there were some differences in the way they were built.

S1: fixed windows, bonded in chassis, lancia rear lights

Guesses below :

S1A: removable windows, lancia lights, bonded in chassis

S1B: removable windows, lucas lights, (removable chassis?)


Serge

[jbcollier]

All S1s have a bonded-in chassis.  While the designations S1, S1A and S1B are important milestones, there are other changes as well.  Different transmission, metal to wood dash, etc.

The most important consideration when faced with an S1 is: Are you willing to do the work to change or repair the chassis?  It's a big job that makes redoing an S1 way more work than the later Europas.  And, unless it is an Arizona vehicle, it will need it.

The nice thing about the S1s is that they have a much better build quality than S2s.  Don't know why but the body is much better built and stronger.  Don't get me wrong all the rest was just thrown together and creaks and groans you will find aplenty, but the fibreglass is thicker, properly matted and panel fit is actually very good.  I have been very lucky, I stumbled into my S1 but it turns out I prefer the earlier, purer body style and I prefer the lighter Renault engine to the twin cam as well.  I'd rather fight than switch...

[jbcollier]

If you do get an S1, and after you repair the frame, you need to take steps to keep water from getting back in between the body and the frame -- why it rusted in the first place.  Unfortunately, Lotus didn't make this easy to do.

At the front:

- use seam sealer to seal the frame to the body, all the way round, please.  Make sure all holes have their correct grommets or are taped off (yup, the factory taped off unused holes).

- drill three holes in the body next to the frame so that any water that might collect will drain away.

At the rear:

- seal the bottom of the frame to the body.

- fibreglass the bottom of the seat "supports" to the body.

- seal the bottom of the seats "supports"to the body.

- seal the sides of the seat "supports" to the frame.

- using "blobs" of seam sealer, build a dam to direct water from the fuel tank area to the sealed seat area.

- drill at least two holes a side next to where the seats are sealed to the body to drain away water that collects there.

- inside each "Y" of the frame, make seam sealer dams to direct water out of the frame.

-seal all the rivets underneath that hold the frame to the body.

- finally, after all that is done, spray liquid rust proofing inside the frame.

[Bainford]

Thanks for the info and advice. My primary concern at this point is simply identifying what I am looking at. A bit of light investigating online turned up nothing but confusion. One thing I've learned is that not all S1s had an aluminum dash. I know some had removable side windows and some were fixed. Were there also some that had a window that pivoted open slightly at the aft edge? Also, did any S1 cars have the full door handle, or did they all have the hand hold relief at the back edge of the door?

There seem to be so many running changes during the production run of the S1, and I hear some people make comments that one iteration of S1 is preferable to another, but dicerning the differences is making my head spin. Many online sources seem to contradict each other. Well, I guess it's all part of what makes this fun.

It may be all for naught anyway. My friend emailed me more info and I think the car could be an S2. I'm going to check it out when I can to find out for sure, but it may take a couple of weeks. Apparently it's rough and partially disassembled, but all there. The owner bought it 20 years ago in its current condition as a project but never did anything with it, and now is selling house so he wants it gone. If it is an S1 I may buy it, even if just to be sure it gets saved, and pass it on to an enthusiast who has the time to deal with it.

And fear not, Brian. I will take pictures 

[RoddyMac]

Also, did any S1 cars have the full door handle, or did they all have the hand hold relief at the back edge of the door?

All S1's and the first of the S2's had the hand hold relief.  So, to answer your question to the full handle, no.  That being said, I'm sure one could swap a set of later doors to an S1 provided they adapt the later striker plate the the body.