Quarter Window Seals - fitment

[jjbunn]

I have a new three piece rubber seal set from Dent for the 1/4 window, driver's side.

The seal that bears against the power window's frame is pretty obvious (if apparently a little large), and I see how it fits.

But I cannot understand how the other two seals that are supposed to fit in the 1/4 window angled channel are fitted. The seals have two grooves in them, running lengthways, one of which must be for the glass: but what edge is the other supposed to fit over? Does the seal really fit into the frame slot - it seems far too big?

I can post photos if it's unclear what I am talking about 

Help!?!

Thanks,
Julian

[BDA]

Hmmm... Pictures might help.

[jjbunn]

Here's an end view of the seal, and the channel:

[BDA]

That piece looks like what goes on the leading edge which seals against the door. The other pieces seal between the glass and the aluminum frame. See if this picture helps a bit: http://lotus-europa.com/manuals/tcparts/b/tcbc.pdf

[jjbunn]

That piece looks like what goes on the leading edge which seals against the door. The other pieces seal between the glass and the aluminum frame. See if this picture helps a bit: http://lotus-europa.com/manuals/tcparts/b/tcbc.pdf

I'm still confused. There are two pieces like the one pictured: they are marked "11" in that diagram. The other piece is marked "12" and I see how it fits.

What is not clear to me is how the "11" pieces (like in my photo) attach to the aluminum frame channel in my photo. The frame attaches directly to the door aperture.

I've looked at my passenger door, which has the seals fitted, but I'm no clearer 

[BDA]

I was partially mistaken. The seal in the picture is for both the leading edge and the bottom of the quarter window (#11), the other one (#12) is for the rear, vertical seal. The best I can figure is that the larger groove seals against the thick door and the bottom channel and door and the smaller groove is for the glass. Keep in mind that from the outside, all three of the pieces look the same (i.e. slim rather than the thicker appearance the leading and bottom pieces have looking from the inside. For the #12 piece, I believe the wider groove seals against the aluminum channel and the narrower groove against the glass.

The only pictures I have are from the exploded diagram I referenced and the r.d. enterprises picture. I looked at my car and it's hard to get much more of an idea about it. I think the key is that all three pieces look the same from the outside. My guess is that once you arrange it so that looks like what will happen, it will become clearer.

Let me know if that helps.

[jjbunn]

Yes, thanks, this helps: it's becoming clearer! I think I need to position the frame in the door, then look at orientations of the seal that result in the same thickness of rubber appearing around the frame on the outside, compared with the fitted seals on my passenger door.

Perhaps the key point is that the seal needs to go over the frame *and* the lip on the door that the frame abuts?


Julian

[BDA]

I think you're right. On the forward edge and the bottom edge, I think it will go over the frame and the door.

[ronrob]

I am aware that this topic has not been discussed for years but in case there is someone that is struggling with fitting the quarter light glass (as I have been for longer than I care to admit) I should add to the tips already on this forum.
After trying everything is was clear that the seal I have for the 45° angle and the horizonal are just too fat to sit in the aluminium "U" channel to give room for the glass (these are seals from SJSportscars in the UK, a Company for which I have a high regard). To cut to the chase, it was either a case of trying to modify rubber seals or modifying where they fit. My tip is to ease the aluminium channel open with circlip pliers - this allows the rubber seal to sit a bit lower in the "U" and give more space to slide the quarter light glass in place to clear the main frame which contains the sliding galss. I still have to fit the frame with the sliding window so I am not out of the woods. I have read that it is possible to fit the quarter light and seals after the main frame (loosely in place or otherwise) but this option is a mystery to me.

[Bryan Boyle]

I am aware that this topic has not been discussed for years but in case there is someone that is struggling with fitting the quarter light glass (as I have been for longer than I care to admit) I should add to the tips already on this forum.
After trying everything is was clear that the seal I have for the 45° angle and the horizonal are just too fat to sit in the aluminium "U" channel to give room for the glass (these are seals from SJSportscars in the UK, a Company for which I have a high regard). To cut to the chase, it was either a case of trying to modify rubber seals or modifying where they fit. My tip is to ease the aluminium channel open with circlip pliers - this allows the rubber seal to sit a bit lower in the "U" and give more space to slide the quarter light glass in place to clear the main frame which contains the sliding galss. I still have to fit the frame with the sliding window so I am not out of the woods. I have read that it is possible to fit the quarter light and seals after the main frame (loosely in place or otherwise) but this option is a mystery to me.

It's a pain.  No doubt.  Not as bad as some other issues, but a pain nonetheless.  I'd invite you to check out the renovation journal for 693R, written in '07-'09, where I detail some of how to put this together.

you're going to want to read the entry for 12/29/08 entitled "On the Downstroke" where I have a few tips about fitting the quarter light/inter-frame H section, and U sections in the main window.

Also, under the photo section for 693R, under the 2008 folder, the sub-folders for 12/29/2008 and 12/30/2008 have installation photos.

One item: the U channel open ends fit UNDER the lip of the aluminum channel. I show a tool to use to put it under the lip.  You don't have to bend the channel open.  Once you get it installed, you can spray it with silicone spray to get the window to move; as you use it, it will take a set and wear slightly so the windows move nicely.  Don't go bending things, the U channels that the usual suspects sell works just fine, if a bit stiff initially.  Oh, and don't put the rear vertical channel in all the way or the top horizontal channel until you finish attaching the frame to the door. 

All mentioned files and photos are available under the 693R menu tab at http://www.lotuseuropa.us

[ronrob]

Brian. Thank you for your reply and the links. I had come across snippets of your contributions but I had no idea of the quite fabulous detail I have now discovered. The dedication to the work and, above all, setting it on record is astounding. While it is the first time I have had to deal with these windows, I am not unacquainted with the ways of Lotus. I have been through Elans, an Eclat, an Esprit and this is my second Europa. I don't count the Sunbeam Talbot Lotus.....
I understand most of the descriptions of window installation but it is clear to me that my problems are simply down to the rubber seal used at the 45° and horizontal for the fixed glass. The rubber section which sits in the aluminium "U" section is far too thick; sure I've tried everything. Heat, buckets of soapy water - but taking a small cut off and looking at how it sits in the aluminium, it's like trying to put two quarts into a one quart can. I'm in France, but people in the UK have had the same problem - I don't know an alternative source for this seal. Maybe I can shave the seal a bit.

[ronrob]

Sorry. Should have been Bryan!
Ron

[Bryan Boyle]

Sorry. Should have been Bryan!
Ron

No wqrries; at this stage...just don't call me late for afternoon cocktails...I answer to either!

[ronrob]

Glad that you answer to both forms Bryan....especially for the "apéro" as it's informally known in France. Just to close out this part, after grinding off a good 2mm from seal for the 45° angle and the horizontal sections for the quarter light, the seal sits low enough in the aluminium "U" section to allow the triangular glass plate to be pushed forward enough to fit the main frame which contains the sliding window. As usual, this will only make sense to those who have had the pleasure of working on the set up! Cheers/Santé. Ron