Author Topic: Springs and Dampers for S2 Europa  (Read 2631 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline kapps

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Joined: Jul 2024
  • Location: Florida
  • Posts: 3
Springs and Dampers for S2 Europa
« on: Tuesday,March 11, 2025, 06:41:25 PM »
Hi everyone. I was a regular on the old Yahoo group a decade ago but lost track of the community when it shut down. It’s been fun reading the threads on here and seeing some familiar usernames!

I’m starting to do research on springs/dampers for my S2 to replace the Banks Avo kit I’ve been running for the last 15-20 years. The oil has long since leaked out of the Avo’s and the 2nd set of poly bushings has disintegrated. I’m ready for something new. I mainly want to keep the proper low-nose ride height with reasonable spring rates. The car is driven on the street. I see RDent is selling Spax. Are there any other kits that I should be looking at?  Any recommendations would be appreciated.
S2 0705R

Offline BDA

  • Super Member
  • *******
  • Joined: Jul 2012
  • Location: North Carolina
  • Posts: 10,134
  • "74 TCS - BDA - NG3
Re: Springs and Dampers for S2 Europa
« Reply #1 on: Tuesday,March 11, 2025, 07:09:19 PM »
I have liked the Protech shocks I got from SJSportscars (https://www.sjsportscars.com/). They have adjustable spring perches so you can get the ride height you want. They are adjustable for stiffness too. If you like the spring rates you have, I’d stick with your springs.

I believe r.d. sells front shocks that take 2 1/2” springs. You should check what size springs you have and see if r.d. can accommodate you if you want their shocks. The Protech shocks use 1.9” springs front and back. I don’t know but I suspect they take 1.9” springs too.

I don’t know which of those shocks is better but the Protechs are really too pretty to put under a car!

The old yahoo group is still around on groups.io (https://groups.io/g/LotusEuropa/topics).

I almost forgot….  :Welcome: Kappa!!

Offline HealeyBN7

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Joined: Sep 2013
  • Location: Thousand Oaks, CA
  • Posts: 110
Re: Springs and Dampers for S2 Europa
« Reply #2 on: Tuesday,March 11, 2025, 08:56:33 PM »
I just ordered a pair of rear adjustable 1.9" coil overs from GAZ to replace the AVOs that just this month started leaking.  It takes 4 weeks or so to make them up.  They recommended GP6-2155.  I attached the drawing they sent me.

Offline Grumblebuns

  • Super Member
  • *******
  • Joined: Aug 2012
  • Location: San Diego area
  • Posts: 1,561
Re: Springs and Dampers for S2 Europa
« Reply #3 on: Wednesday,March 12, 2025, 10:08:05 AM »
Ben, I'm also installing GAZ shocks and springs for my TCS. I ordered my set about five years ago, the same time I pulled my engine for a rebuild. The engine is now ready to go back into the car and I plan on swapping out the installed Konis for the GAZ. I ordered my GAZ through my local fabricator, also a GAZ distributor, who does a lot of my fabrication work. He ordered the GP6-2155 for the rear and the GP7-2154 for the front. They are adjustable for rebound only I believe. The rear springs are 12" long by 1.9" diameter and has a 160# spring rate. I don't recall the front spring settings. The labels on the box are labeled for the S2. I don't know if my fabricator ordered the wrong shocks but these should fit just fine for the TCS.   

Offline kapps

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Joined: Jul 2024
  • Location: Florida
  • Posts: 3
Re: Springs and Dampers for S2 Europa
« Reply #4 on: Wednesday,March 12, 2025, 03:11:10 PM »
Thanks. I do have 2.5” springs on the Avo fronts.  I’ve heard that the Banks setup has front springs are scary stiff but I honestly haven’t had problems with them. They might be a tad much for the street but not obnoxious. If I could get away with retaining my current springs and just replace the dampers, that would be a great. I’ll take a look at GAZ and Protech.
S2 0705R

Offline cazman

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Joined: Nov 2021
  • Location: Upstate NY
  • Posts: 273
Re: Springs and Dampers for S2 Europa
« Reply #5 on: Wednesday,March 12, 2025, 03:45:40 PM »
I just ordered a pair of rear adjustable 1.9" coil overs from GAZ to replace the AVOs that just this month started leaking.  It takes 4 weeks or so to make them up.  They recommended GP6-2155.  I attached the drawing they sent me.

Is that worksheet for a Lotus 7?
1973 Europa TCS

Offline HealeyBN7

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Joined: Sep 2013
  • Location: Thousand Oaks, CA
  • Posts: 110
Re: Springs and Dampers for S2 Europa
« Reply #6 on: Wednesday,March 12, 2025, 05:54:32 PM »

Quote

Is that worksheet for a Lotus 7?


I noticed that too.  I think they just happen to be the same shock size.  I guess shocks are only so unique.  In the case of the Europa vs 7 it's probably all about the  spring rates. 

The only difference I saw in the specs between the AVOs that I am taking off and the GAZ spec sheet was a 1/4" difference in extended travel length.  I don't think that will matter.  I'll post back after a test drive.

Dean

Offline cazman

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Joined: Nov 2021
  • Location: Upstate NY
  • Posts: 273
Re: Springs and Dampers for S2 Europa
« Reply #7 on: Thursday,March 13, 2025, 02:29:49 PM »
Just my opinion - I looked dove deep into springs and shock years ago and there seems to be three tiers of aftermarket performance coil-overs.

1. The bespoke race prepared that have the highest level of engineering and quality control, i.e. Penske, where the design (using sophisticated  requirements) matches the final product proved by data charts.

2. The street performance / track day that had someone at one time copy a design or make a good guess at design inputs and try and deliver that as a consistent product, i.e. cataloged part that may or may not have a data chart for proof that it is as designed.

3. The street "performance" that are cheap and fit AND really look good and probably work good enough for the street.

As I tuned my Europa's suspension on a track and tried stock, Koni, AVO, and Protech shocks with various spring rates and calcs, I have tried to leverage group #2 with some attributes of group #1. I could only do this by personally speaking to Richard Winter and Barry Spencer who both road race Europas. That way I could use their experience and request a certain spring rate with a certain dampening. With our choices in the market, I still don't have the shock dyno graph I would like, but I trusted that these two gentleman had at one time validated the result.

My issue with the worksheet shown is that it not only uses a Lotus 7 for the input, but does not mention the type of driving, the spring rate, or anything about damping. As a automotive aftermarket manufacturer, I recognize this as a build sheet for an assembler.  Too bad they couldn't have a Customer Requirements Sheet. This puts that shock in the category of #3 for me. 
1973 Europa TCS

Offline HealeyBN7

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Joined: Sep 2013
  • Location: Thousand Oaks, CA
  • Posts: 110
Re: Springs and Dampers for S2 Europa
« Reply #8 on: Thursday,March 13, 2025, 09:22:17 PM »
Just my opinion - I looked dove deep into springs and shock years ago and there seems to be three tiers of aftermarket performance coil-overs.

1. The bespoke race prepared that have the highest level of engineering and quality control, i.e. Penske, where the design (using sophisticated  requirements) matches the final product proved by data charts.

2. The street performance / track day that had someone at one time copy a design or make a good guess at design inputs and try and deliver that as a consistent product, i.e. cataloged part that may or may not have a data chart for proof that it is as designed.

3. The street "performance" that are cheap and fit AND really look good and probably work good enough for the street.

As I tuned my Europa's suspension on a track and tried stock, Koni, AVO, and Protech shocks with various spring rates and calcs, I have tried to leverage group #2 with some attributes of group #1. I could only do this by personally speaking to Richard Winter and Barry Spencer who both road race Europas. That way I could use their experience and request a certain spring rate with a certain dampening. With our choices in the market, I still don't have the shock dyno graph I would like, but I trusted that these two gentleman had at one time validated the result.

My issue with the worksheet shown is that it not only uses a Lotus 7 for the input, but does not mention the type of driving, the spring rate, or anything about damping. As a automotive aftermarket manufacturer, I recognize this as a build sheet for an assembler.  Too bad they couldn't have a Customer Requirements Sheet. This puts that shock in the category of #3 for me.

On the GAZ website you will find this statement regarding  GAZ GP6-2155.   Perhaps you missed it.

"These Gaz coilover damper units are a replacement for your OE dampers in terms of fitment and hence simply bolt in place of your cars original damper mounting points. The dampers can be built for road or race cars and for OE and lowered ride heights. Once ordered, please email us with your order number and tell us what you use the car for and whether the car is to be lowered or retain OE ride height so the dampers can be built correctly for your requirements." 

Classic Team Lotus ala Paul Matty have been selling GAZ shocks for years.  It is a popular brand supported by most of the major aftermarket retailers.  AVO is no longer in business or stuck in receivership.  Koni doesn't list options for the Europa anymore. I can't see the difference between Protech and GAZ.  I have adjustable Protechs on my Esprit and they are wonderful.

These will be fine for my use if they are similar to the AVOs and don't leak:). 

Perhaps an engineering discussion with GAZ would be informative, or a chat with Classic Team Lotus for your race car needs.  Please let us know what you learn.

Dean

PS - I wish they were cheap(er)

Offline cazman

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Joined: Nov 2021
  • Location: Upstate NY
  • Posts: 273
Re: Springs and Dampers for S2 Europa
« Reply #9 on: Friday,March 14, 2025, 12:24:08 PM »
This is great news. Sorry, I was lead astray by that build sheet. I did not know that they took your inputs into consideration. I also see that they give a dyno sheet with every pair. GAZ is moving up on my list!
« Last Edit: Friday,March 14, 2025, 12:29:11 PM by cazman »
1973 Europa TCS

Offline HealeyBN7

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Joined: Sep 2013
  • Location: Thousand Oaks, CA
  • Posts: 110
Re: Springs and Dampers for S2 Europa
« Reply #10 on: Sunday,March 23, 2025, 08:08:18 PM »
Installed the GAZ rear shocks today.  They seem fine.  I like that they are not flashy.   I was surprised how worn the AVO bushings were.  Of course shock oil leaking onto  the poly stuff is not ideal.

I was provided a shock dyno sheet and can upload that if there is interest.

Dean

Offline Grumblebuns

  • Super Member
  • *******
  • Joined: Aug 2012
  • Location: San Diego area
  • Posts: 1,561
Re: Springs and Dampers for S2 Europa
« Reply #11 on: Monday,March 24, 2025, 06:35:10 AM »
What length springs and what spring rate are you using for the rear?

Offline Benjy

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Joined: Oct 2023
  • Location: France
  • Posts: 33
    • Woodenwidget plans for the spatially challenged
Re: Springs and Dampers for S2 Europa
« Reply #12 on: Monday,March 24, 2025, 01:07:33 PM »
Ahoy All

How about these? https://scalesuspension.com/product/lotus-europa-70-75-innovative/

I wrote a couple of times but got no reply.

Would like to know if anyone has managed to buy a pair and if they did are they as good as they look?

Cheers

Benjy 54/0949 France

Offline Grumblebuns

  • Super Member
  • *******
  • Joined: Aug 2012
  • Location: San Diego area
  • Posts: 1,561
Re: Springs and Dampers for S2 Europa
« Reply #13 on: Monday,March 24, 2025, 03:52:59 PM »
They appear to be Canadian based but have dealers in the US. They look gorgeous but pricey. Serge of Sleurs Motorsports used Nitron suspension, equally expensive; UK based?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HUBq9mz61_E&list=PLtMoV12eiMClI5G9tysST91LRUgVXk5QW&index=55


Offline cazman

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Joined: Nov 2021
  • Location: Upstate NY
  • Posts: 273
Re: Springs and Dampers for S2 Europa
« Reply #14 on: Monday,March 24, 2025, 05:51:28 PM »
I was provided a shock dyno sheet and can upload that if there is interest.

Yes, I would like to see the sheet. Thanks again for informing us on these.
1973 Europa TCS