Author Topic: Certificate of Provenance  (Read 232 times)

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Offline jlmullen2

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Certificate of Provenance
« on: Wednesday,December 18, 2024, 09:01:03 PM »
Just wondering if anyone has obtained a Certificate of Provenance for your Europa. I had seen a listing for the Certificate a while ago on the Lotus Silverstone web site and also recall a few folks mentioning they had contacted Lotus directly about the Certificate. I'm familiar with documents from manufacturers which confirm original equipment and that the VIN number confirms you really have an "original" vehicle. I have such a document for one of my other cars, a Saleen Mustang. At least in the Mustang world, this document helps when you are trying to price/sell your car.

I recently tried to find information on obtaining a Certificate of Provenance for my Europa. I e-mailed Lotus (Andy Grahme ??) but didn't receive a reply. I then went to the Lotus cars web site and the instructions for getting the certificate indicated I needed to contact my local Lotus dealer. I contacted a Lotus dealer in my area and they just got back to me with a price quote and how to begin the process of getting the certificate. I was quoted a price of $418.00 plus $35.00 shipping costs. They also noted it would take 6-8 weeks once I ordered the certificate.

This seems like a lot of money for a single page certificate and I'm not sure the value of the certificate is worth the cost. Appreciate anyone's comments on both the value of the Certificate as well as the cost I was quoted.

Thanks
Larry Mullen
1973 Europa TCS
Larry Mullen
73 Europa TC Special
97 Saleen 281
04 Subaru WRX

Offline EuropaTC

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Re: Certificate of Provenance
« Reply #1 on: Wednesday,December 18, 2024, 11:31:19 PM »
Hmm, I don't think I'd bother at that price, and as for $35 shipping for a sheet of A4 paper, well, obviously it's delivered on a velvet cushion.

I know some folks on here have got certificates in the past and from memory they came via Andy Graham. At one point he did follow this forum but I don't know if he's still around at Lotus or in the same position as Archivist. When I contacted him it was via "agraham AATT lotuscars.com" - obviously replace the AATT with @

Offline Kendo

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Re: Certificate of Provenance
« Reply #2 on: Thursday,December 19, 2024, 07:28:42 AM »
I got one from Andy for free, as I recall. I had to send him a photo of the car in my garage, and of the number plate. He could have retired, through. Your dealer is scamming you.

Offline BDA

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Re: Certificate of Provenance
« Reply #3 on: Thursday,December 19, 2024, 08:32:47 AM »
I emailed Andy in November so I don't think he's retired. His address is AGraham at lotuscars dot com.

Offline jbcollier

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Re: Certificate of Provenance
« Reply #4 on: Friday,December 20, 2024, 09:21:51 AM »
It is no longer just a few pages.  Lotus is trying to make it more like the other high end companies offering certificates.  You get a booklet on your car and a few other “collectables.”

Offline S2Zetec54

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« Last Edit: Friday,December 20, 2024, 10:18:47 AM by S2Zetec54 »

Offline richyb66

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Re: Certificate of Provenance
« Reply #6 on: Friday,December 20, 2024, 12:14:02 PM »
I ordered one a couple of years ago. Emailed Andy Graham and went for the cheap version which was just the certificate, no goodies of fancy box. Had all the info on I needed and I think it was £40.

Offline Fotog

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Re: Certificate of Provenance
« Reply #7 on: Friday,December 20, 2024, 01:59:39 PM »
When I (finally) got  my car operational a few years back I contacted Andy and got the following back from him, dated 1/23/2020:

Dear Vincent,
Thank you for your enquiry. Being in the UK I don’t have any knowledge on how the US title system works, but many cars I have seen use the short VIN in the windscreen which is normally type number (74) and unit number 2619R. This could be why someone automatically wrote 74 at the start?

The car was made in August 1972 and sold in September 1972 to the US distributor Lotus East. It could have been 1973 by the time the car was passed onto a Lotus dealer and then retailed. Before 1980 Lotus did not use specific model years.

If needed we can offer a certificate service and can provide a second copy to the authorities if they need.
The classic certificate is £44.00 each car which includes postage and contains the certificate and a covering letter which does into more detail such as VIN/Engine number breakdown and these are all manually created from the information contained in the original files. The classic certificate covers;
VIN,
Engine number,
Transmission number,
Model,
Original colour,
Some options,
Date of manufacture,
Date of sale from Lotus,
Original distributor
Or for £55 we can offer the certificate above but include a search where your car comes in the US Europa Twin Cam build sequence and how many were in the same colour
Payment method options are;
Credit/debit card,
Bank transfer (need payment in British Pounds)


I had asked him if he had any insight about an anomaly between the title and the VIN.  My car is quite far from original, but I suppose could readily be put back that way.  Just seeing how they have been valued and often modified over the years, I don't see much value in a certificate, particularly an expensive one.

YMMV, of course!
-Vince

Offline EuropaTC

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Re: Certificate of Provenance
« Reply #8 on: Saturday,December 21, 2024, 12:14:12 AM »
…..is this what you mean?

https://shop.thelotusforums.com/products/lotus-certificate-of-provenance?srsltid=AfmBOorSF3ug8wst8YodZu1ZaQ6Lwc5Hia9RcmCrHzptSOf3QQjj0qyi

And this direct by the look of it

https://www.lotuscars.com/en-GB/certificate-provenance

Wow, I'm definitely a cheapskate because that's too rich for me !

But if you were spending £80k (list) on a new Emira or you'd bought an Evora from new, well I can see one of those being ticked on the options list. It's a nicely put together package and relative to the cost of putting a new car on the road I could see a proud new owner wanting one.

Brian