Author Topic: Excessive Brake Pedal Movement  (Read 388 times)

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Offline 4129R

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Excessive Brake Pedal Movement
« on: Tuesday,August 27, 2024, 02:56:10 AM »
I have excessive brake pedal movement.

I have bled the brakes at all 4 corners.

I have tried pumping the pedal to see if I can get less travel, no difference.

I have tried putting the hand brake on to take up movement in the rear shoes, no difference.

None of the rubber hoses are bulging.

When bleeding the brakes, I can feel the pedal pumping the fluid out of the open bleed nipple straight away, so the pedal is operating the master cylinder directly.

I have run out of ideas. Any suggestions? Does the fault lie in the servo?

I had fitted new discs, pads, master cylinder, pedal assembly, servo, and all brake lines, so the whole braking system should be good.
« Last Edit: Wednesday,August 28, 2024, 05:42:54 AM by 4129R »

Offline dakazman

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Re: Excessive Bake Pedal Movement
« Reply #1 on: Tuesday,August 27, 2024, 12:22:06 PM »
  Did you disconnect the pedal from the master cylinder linkage inside car and turn counterclockwise and then reattach pedal?
  Dakazman
« Last Edit: Tuesday,August 27, 2024, 12:27:34 PM by dakazman »

Offline 4129R

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Re: Excessive Bake Pedal Movement
« Reply #2 on: Tuesday,August 27, 2024, 01:36:10 PM »
  Did you disconnect the pedal from the master cylinder linkage inside car and turn counterclockwise and then reattach pedal?
  Dakazman

So you think lengthening the extension rod which connects the pedal to the master cylinder could help.

Offline dakazman

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Re: Excessive Bake Pedal Movement
« Reply #3 on: Tuesday,August 27, 2024, 02:09:38 PM »
  It did on mine, I just did it because the pedal was way too close to the firewall.  I'm going to do another full panic stop again and want the brake above the clutch pedal.
Dakazman

Offline dakazman

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Re: Excessive Bake Pedal Movement
« Reply #4 on: Tuesday,August 27, 2024, 06:52:09 PM »
  You can just turn the Clevis , lengthen it and push inward and hook back up .
Dakazman

Offline EuropaTC

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Re: Excessive Bake Pedal Movement
« Reply #5 on: Tuesday,August 27, 2024, 10:22:12 PM »
Firstly, define what's excessive movement ? Is it in comparison with your other Europa's or cars with modern brakes ?

It's a long time since I had rear drums and when I first got the car in the 80s I considered the brakes as good, but as time goes on and I compared with more modern cars I started to think they weren't so hot. Some cars (Audi TT for example) had brakes like a light switch, touch the pedal and they're on whereas the Europa had more travel. Technically it's ok and no different from how it's been since new, but mentally I had a problem switching cars and thinking the brakes weren't working.

While still on drums I changed to a larger m/cyl, removed the servo and eventually went dual circuit. I tried the handbrake trick to try and improve bleeding the rear drums but it wasn't until I went discs all round that the brakes started to feel like a modern car.  Even then I wasn't completely sold and tried residual pressure valves in the circuit.  If you think your excess travel problem lies with the drums then that's one thing you could try to reduce the push back from the shoes, especially if you still have the lower mounted brake reservoir and not the (higher) remote unit on UK cars.

Things I also tried - leaving the brake pedal depressed overnight based on the theory that the pressure would absorb residual air in the fluid and the pedal improve. I did that, bled the brakes the next day and convinced myself it was better.  Now I'm not so sure I was right, but it's easy enough to try for yourself.

I eventually got all geeky, calculated the travel I could expect and grovelled in the footwell to measure it. IIRC it was around 3.5-4cm, not a lot really and that's where it is now. One theory which I think improved my travel was the caliper piston retraction. Remember I'm all disc so this depends on disc run out and how much the seals move between on/off. I felt this was the only reason between calculation and reality so I tried to reduce it.

These days before bleeding I remove the pads, push the pistons out a touch and then force the pads back in which I think reduces the mount of flex in the caliper seals. The pads don't appear to drag any more but I did reduce travel and reality is very close to theory now.

Brian
« Last Edit: Wednesday,August 28, 2024, 09:18:05 AM by EuropaTC »

Offline 4129R

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Re: Excessive Bake Pedal Movement
« Reply #6 on: Wednesday,August 28, 2024, 01:07:56 AM »
I have lengthened the master cylinder extension rod but:-

1) I cannot lengthen it any more as the transfer from accelerator pedal to brake pedal will be too big a difference in right leg length, and my right shoe might hit the side of the brake pedal when transferring from go to stop. 

2) I cannot lengthen it any more as the thread in the yoke which attaches to the brake pedal will be too short.

The brake pedal goes about 40mm - 50mm down then firm resistance.

Putting the hand brake on makes no difference to this 40mm - 50mm travel.

I will road test it at lunchtime down to my local pub.

Maybe it is just the difference between 50 year old braking systems and modern braking systems, but of the 4 Europas I have roadworthy, this one seems to have had more travel than normal.

Offline 4129R

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Re: Excessive Brake Pedal Movement
« Reply #7 on: Wednesday,August 28, 2024, 05:44:04 AM »
Road test completed. After lengthening the extension rod connecting the pedal to the master cylinder, the pedal now seems normal.

Offline dakazman

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Re: Excessive Brake Pedal Movement
« Reply #8 on: Wednesday,August 28, 2024, 04:27:51 PM »
 :beerchug:  I didn’t get to drive mine today, don’t ask.😵‍💫
 Dakazman