Author Topic: Re-drilling TCS brake pedal instead of replacing OE Master Cylinder  (Read 372 times)

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Offline FourLoti

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Re-drilling TCS brake pedal instead of replacing OE Master Cylinder
« on: Tuesday,June 18, 2024, 12:55:36 PM »
Note: Sorry I can't give proper credit, but I can't locate the fairly recent thread re: MC replacement options, in which a poster determined that, with boosters removed, a 3/8" reduction in the brake fulcrum arm length would have the same impact on pedal pressure as going with the "popular" option of procuring and re-piping a Spitfire or similar .7" bore MC. Not sure if anyone actually tried this, but, because I was about to sell my car (boosters bypassed, original MC) I felt it was worth a shot. (I had almost gotten used to the super hard, non-boosted pedal pressure, but didn't think a new owner or test driver would be pleased.)

Happy to report that it worked like a charm! The car is gone, but for posterity sake, here is how the project went:

I measured down 3/8 from the existing pivot hole and drilled another one. Easy.

You next need to raise the whole pedal base by 3/8" to line up the new hole with the MC push rod clevis.

As a prototype, I built a stack of 1/8" X 2" aluminum stock from Lowes. This gave the proper lift, but did not support the entire width of the base, which is 2.5". But close enough for proof of concept. For the final version, I had a local metal shop cut a 5.5" x 2.5" piece of 3/8 plate. Also can be found on line, e.g.: https://www.ebay.com/itm/353419004742  Then drilled 4 holes for the mounting bolts.

And here is the rub: The OE pedal assy attaches with welded studs that can no longer reach with the spacer in place. The answer is to cut off the studs and the drill and tap the bolt head that was part of the stud. This allows any length of bolts to be inserted from the bottom. (Note: Luckily, I did not have to do this since the replacement pedal assy I bought earlier had, for some reason already been drilled and tapped.)

Then it was just a matter of bolting everything together. No new MC, no brake pipe contortions etc. And a very big improvement in pedal pressure. Firm, as in good old sports car non-assisted brake firm, not as in "OMG I'm going to crash!" firm like before:) 

But, there was one catch that I hadn't anticipated. And that involves the forward pedal travel limit rod welded to the hinge. It, too, needs to have 3/8" more underneath it or the pedal sticks way out. So, I had to fabricate another, small spacer and install it.

EDIT: As seen in the photos, I pinned the spacer to the base with 1/8" tension pins in order to make installation easier.

Hope this helps somewhere down the line - and thanks once again to the unsung hero who posited the idea. If someone knows, please add an attribution.

Ron


« Last Edit: Tuesday,June 18, 2024, 01:28:31 PM by FourLoti »
1974 TVR 2500M
1996 Porsche 993 Carrera Coupe
2005 Mitsubishi Montero Limited
1974 Europa Twin Cam Special 5-Speed (gone)
1987 Esprit Turbo (gone)
1980 Eclat (gone)
1963 Elan S1 (gone)
1970 Europa S2 (gone)

Offline BDA

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Re: Re-drilling TCS brake pedal instead of replacing OE Master Cylinder
« Reply #1 on: Tuesday,June 18, 2024, 01:08:36 PM »
Nice writeup, FourLoti!  :welder: That's good to know!

Offline cazman

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Re: Re-drilling TCS brake pedal instead of replacing OE Master Cylinder
« Reply #2 on: Tuesday,June 18, 2024, 01:31:31 PM »
I am going to do the same; thanks.
1973 Europa TCS

Offline Dilkris

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Re: Re-drilling TCS brake pedal instead of replacing OE Master Cylinder
« Reply #3 on: Tuesday,June 18, 2024, 03:04:09 PM »
 :coolpic: Excellent info - this has been discussed often - but your pictures sum it up perfectly.

Online Bud

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Re: Re-drilling TCS brake pedal instead of replacing OE Master Cylinder
« Reply #4 on: Thursday,June 20, 2024, 06:37:34 AM »
Great write-up and answers my question above. I will consider the switch

Offline FourLoti

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Re: Re-drilling TCS brake pedal instead of replacing OE Master Cylinder
« Reply #5 on: Thursday,June 20, 2024, 11:40:13 AM »
Glad it's of interest.

One thing to add is that since the base is mounted to the floor at a slight angle, moving it up also moves it (slightly) toward the driver. So, if the pushrod stays the same length, the pedal will move a bit closer to the firewall. It wasn't a big deal, but fortunately, I had enough tread left in the clevis to allow screwing it out a few turns.

But, in retrospect, some of that adjustment may not have been needed if I'd drilled the new hole a bit closer to the firewall (forward) edge of the lever. Without thinking, I drilled it directly inline (centered on) the existing hole. Again, not a huge deal, but, except for the hassle of the extra R&R, it could be possible to install the lifted base first, and then mark where the new clevis hole should be drilled to maintain existing pedal height. This is especially true if the clevis is already at the end of its adjustment, as no one I know would want to take the MC out to adjust the inner pushrod!

Ron
1974 TVR 2500M
1996 Porsche 993 Carrera Coupe
2005 Mitsubishi Montero Limited
1974 Europa Twin Cam Special 5-Speed (gone)
1987 Esprit Turbo (gone)
1980 Eclat (gone)
1963 Elan S1 (gone)
1970 Europa S2 (gone)

Offline Kendo

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Re: Re-drilling TCS brake pedal instead of replacing OE Master Cylinder
« Reply #6 on: Thursday,June 20, 2024, 12:26:31 PM »
Regarding the the forward pedal travel limit rod, could one make the 3/8" base plate larger in that area to serve as the rod's resting place? Or does the floor change directions there, so you'd need a bent base plate?

Offline FourLoti

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Re: Re-drilling TCS brake pedal instead of replacing OE Master Cylinder
« Reply #7 on: Thursday,June 20, 2024, 12:45:38 PM »
Good question. My car is gone, but I think it's the latter case.

I had what I thought was a great idea - to thread that rod and install a threaded coupling nut, and thus make the length adjustable. But, it's too thick for a 10x24 die to fit. As you can see it just started eating away at the rod. So much for trying to be clever!

EDIT: One other thing to add re: the new bolts coming up from below. The two closest to the driver are too close to the hinge, but the two closest to the firewall can be long enough to double nut for added insurance, or at least peace of mind.
« Last Edit: Thursday,June 20, 2024, 12:51:41 PM by FourLoti »
1974 TVR 2500M
1996 Porsche 993 Carrera Coupe
2005 Mitsubishi Montero Limited
1974 Europa Twin Cam Special 5-Speed (gone)
1987 Esprit Turbo (gone)
1980 Eclat (gone)
1963 Elan S1 (gone)
1970 Europa S2 (gone)

Offline surfguitar58

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Re: Re-drilling TCS brake pedal instead of replacing OE Master Cylinder
« Reply #8 on: Sunday,June 23, 2024, 04:08:36 PM »
I’m sure I didn’t originate the idea, but I have been talking about redrilling the brake pedal for a while now: https://www.lotuseuropa.org/LotusForum/index.php?topic=2861.msg27595#msg27595

To be honest, I never got around to actually doing it. I am thrilled to hear it actually works, and will be doing it myself… one of these days.

Cheers,
Tom
"A designer knows he has achieved perfection not when there is nothing left to add, but when there is nothing left to take away."
Antoine de Saint-Exupery

Offline FourLoti

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Re: Re-drilling TCS brake pedal instead of replacing OE Master Cylinder
« Reply #9 on: Monday,June 24, 2024, 06:58:21 AM »
Thanks Tom- yes, that is exactly the thread that inspired me.

Well done!

Ron
1974 TVR 2500M
1996 Porsche 993 Carrera Coupe
2005 Mitsubishi Montero Limited
1974 Europa Twin Cam Special 5-Speed (gone)
1987 Esprit Turbo (gone)
1980 Eclat (gone)
1963 Elan S1 (gone)
1970 Europa S2 (gone)

Offline Clifton

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Re: Re-drilling TCS brake pedal instead of replacing OE Master Cylinder
« Reply #10 on: Monday,June 24, 2024, 07:29:57 AM »
Mine redrilled. I can't compare to stock calipers. I am running a 5/8" master though and it still needed a little more travel to get the feel right.