365 Transaxle leak

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I’ve had a small leak from my 365 transaxle and finally determined that it’s coming from the Rocking Lever Shaft, which I’ve pointed out in the picture below.  There is an O Ring(second picture #34) on the shaft that seals it and appears to accessible only  by removing the rear cover.
The manual says to place the tranny into 4th gear, remove the plug, screen and 5th detent mechanism, then removing the cover.  I know following this procedure is important so as to not lose the ball into the depths of the housing.  I’m hesitant to do this without further verification that I’m doing it correctly.
Should anyone want to add to this I would appreciate it.
Further, can I remove the cover while the tranny is still mounted in the frame.  I do have the rear end disconnected.

Thanks, as always

Bob

[BDA]

In my experience, that should be all you need to do. It's been a LONG time since I've taken the end cover off my 365 when I had one but I've taken the end cover off my NG3 several times and the same warning about putting it in 4th first so you don't drop a detent ball into the case is the same for it.

I probably shouldn't say this but that detent ball won't necessarily fall into the case when you take the end cover off as I have forgotten to do that and suffered no ill consequences but that just means that I was luckier than I deserve to be so my advise is to follow the directions in the manual and you should be fine.

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Thanks BDA, you’re always a wealth of knowledge.

[Dilkris]

Not withstanding the issue with the indent ball, which is well covered in the above by BDA, I believe removing the end cover (5th gear assembly addition.) will involve dropping the rear of the gearbox sufficiently to allow removal. This in itself is a bit of a mission as there is a lot "going on" around the engine itself as you tilt the rear of the gearbox downwards. Members will have different views on this obviously but personally I would recommend removing the engine/transaxle assembly complete for ease of access to this area - it is "fiddly" and laying on your back with minimal views of what is actually going on (especially during reassembly) is to be avoided at
all cost. Not what you want to hear I'm sure - sorry               
Please keep us posted on how you get on with this.

Correction to the above - I have just been to have a look at my car (TCS, 365, Body off) and I would say you would have to raise the rear of the transaxle, not lower it.   

[BDA]

Good point, Dilkris! As I remember, I lowered the rear of the tranny to get the end cover off but that was a long time ago. I think it will be pretty obvious when you get there and it might end up being personal choice. Do you take off the mounting bracket first? I think so but again I don’t remember (one might wonder why I’d comment on something I seem to have such a poor memory of!). I think the answer to that will also present itself when you get there. If in doubt, check the manual! If still in doubt, check with us here!

I don’t think pulling the engine and tranny out together is warranted. I don’t remember having any trouble with mine leaving the engine in (remembering it was a long time ago!) and that was when I was even less experienced, even less knowledgeable, and hopefully less smart than I am now!    Of course being ignorant is a great way of getting into trouble! Remember these famous first words, “Let’s do it. That looks easy!”

But you’re not ignorant now so don’t be intimidated! We’re here to help!

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Well both of you(Dilkris and BDA) have given me some perspective that I was hoping for.  I freed up the rear of the tranny from the frame mounts and tried tilting  both the tranny and engine together up and down to see what kind of movement I could get.  I had loosened the frame to motor mount bolts to hopefully gain some additional movement as well.  I was jacking under the tranny and could easily get about half of the vertical height of the rear cover.  At that point the rubber hose connections from the chassis coolant tubes were deforming and I didn't push it any further.  I didn't try but I think it would be better to support the tranny with blocking and raise the frame/body.  Taking the motor/tranny out is more than I want to get into right now so I will leave it until the fall.  The leak is small and I can drive around it for the summer.  I'll have to be sure I keep topping off with fluid since this gearbox requires the maximum amount to avoid damage.
Perhaps in the fall before the cold weather sets in, I will take care of this.  I have a hoist so I could disconnect all of the motor connections and then with the motor on a stand, lower it just enough to have the rear cover clear the frame.  This could easily be a one man job so I won't have to line up help like I do for removing or installing the motor.  Other than draining the coolant lines it's not real difficult.
When I first decided to go after this I certainly didn't expect it to be as involved as it appears.  Perhaps that's indicative of my lack of experience.

Thanks for the input.

[Dilkris]

........dropping the rear of the gearbox sufficiently to allow removal. This in itself is a bit of a mission as there is a lot "going on" around the engine itself as you tilt the rear of the gearbox downwards......

As I said in the above - "there is a lot going on" 
When you do get round to doing it watch carefully components on the right side of the engine, (when viewed from the rear), depending on your cam chain condition the adjuster can foul the chassis...
We have all been on the "lack of experience" journey with these cars so don't beat yourself up - your decision to leave it for the time being is sensible but do watch that oil level - it is especially critical on the 365 box as the first area to become starved of oil is the 5th gear assembly and parts for that are exceedingly difficult to find - if not impossible.   

[Pfreen]

I know that I repaired the rear cover of a 365 transmission because I cracked the housing going over a steep transition from driveway to road and the shifter hit the concrete and cracked the case.
The cover can be removed with the engine tranny in place.  It just takes motivation like being 200 miles from home.🙂

[Dilkris]

The cover can be removed with the engine tranny in place.

And reinstalled? I'm impressed - were you running an original chassis or a Banks, Spyder replacement?

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Impressive Pfreen.  Another example of being resourceful when there's no other choice.

As a side note, if you look at my first picture above and expand it, you'll see a weld surrounding the rocking lever shaft.  Something got broken and had to be repaired.  I didn't notice that until about a year after I bought the car.  I don't have any ideas how the damage could have been done and if anyone has a suggestion I'd be eager to hear it.  If someone had backed into a curb, I would think the damage would have been in the area of the shifter.

Any thoughts?
. 

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Last entry I had decided to tolerate my leak until the fall.  After a couple of weeks of sitting, the leak is now worse than I want to tolerate so I began the process of stopping the leak. 
My biggest issue was getting the rear cover off without removing the transaxle and/or motor from the car.  The first picture shows my success in getting to the point of removing the cover.  To get to here, I disconnected the battery and gas line since I didn’t know how much travel they would tolerate.  I also partially drained the coolant as well.  I blocked under the transaxle for support and lifted the body after disconnecting the shocks lower mounts.  Although not quite clear of the frame, I was able to get enough clearance to remove the cover.  Although I had to go through the learning curve, this wasn’t as bad as I expected.
The second picture shows the location of the leaking O ring although, when I removed it there wasn’t any apparent wear or damage.  Lotus’s spec for the O ring is 3/8’s ID and 1/2 OD.  After replacing the O ring I did a leak test and there was no improvement, the leak continued.  The next larger size O ring is 9/16’s OD and that proved to be too large to fit inside the housing.  I don’t find any other sizes between 1/2 and 9/16’s or a metric possibility so I’m stumped.
I’m not comfortable with tolerating the leak but have no ideas to solve this issue and would appreciate any suggestions the group might have.
Thanks

[Kendo]

I think the Renault trannies are metric. So a brief search of Mcmaster-Carr’s 10 mm o rings gives this small range. https://www.mcmaster.com/products/o-ring-seals/o-rings-1~/system-of-measurement~metric/oil-resistant-soft-buna-n-o-rings/id~10-000-mm/. Does one of those look promising? I know the drain plug uses a 10mm wrench. So it seemed possible.

[BDA]

Kendo is surely correct that the o-ring should be metric. I'll bet there is an o-ring place in your city or maybe a bigger city nearby. Where I live in NC, the one we have sells o-rings, gaskets, industrial hose and fittings and probably more. You might feel better having a test fit. It's not a real motivation but chances are that when you settle on an o-ring, they'll give it to you since they are so cheap, it's not worth writing up a ticket.

[Footer]

Thanks Kendo and BDA, both pieces of good information. The O ring I took out was 3/8's X 1/2 ", so someone else was in there before me and put in the wrong O ring.  Not surprising that it would leak.  As I noted in my earlier post, that area was welded so there must have been some damage, although I don't know what caused it.  Must have been changed during that repair.
I'll do some research to find a local supplier of O rings and take the part with me to insure a good fit since the metric sizes are not making sense at the moment.
Hopefully, that will take care of the leak.

[jbcollier]

Very common for the rear cover to be damaged when backing up.

Remove the o-ring and fit the shaft back in its bore.  How well does it fit?  Is it snug with little play?  Is it a bit of a throw fit with the shaft able to move "sideways"?  If more the latter than the former, you will need to have the bore repaired by having it sleeved.