Author Topic: It's not easy being green - 1971 TC  (Read 17062 times)

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Offline jbcollier

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Re: It's not easy being green - 1971 TC
« Reply #240 on: Friday,August 02, 2024, 05:13:31 AM »
Slow down a bit.  Spyder has said it no longer makes a “replacement” chassis for the Europa.  Spyder and Banks stopped making replacement chassises a while ago due to legal action by Lotus.  They both still make their own space-frame chassis.

So, yes, you can’t get a chassis to the original design from Spyder but you can get a space frame chassis.

Offline Cheguava

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Re: It's not easy being green - 1971 TC
« Reply #241 on: Friday,August 02, 2024, 05:38:44 AM »
Slow down a bit.  Spyder has said it no longer makes a “replacement” chassis for the Europa.  Spyder and Banks stopped making replacement chassises a while ago due to legal action by Lotus.  They both still make their own space-frame chassis.

So, yes, you can’t get a chassis to the original design from Spyder but you can get a space frame chassis.

What they said (verbatim) was "Sadly, due to the decline in Europa parts we no longer manufacture chassis and parts." Perhaps I have misunderstood that, but I don't think so. I'll try and clarify that, as a space frame chassis would be fine.

Offline BDA

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Re: It's not easy being green - 1971 TC
« Reply #242 on: Friday,August 02, 2024, 07:29:00 AM »
I think that leaves Lotus Supplies as the only supplier of Europa frames. And with Richard getting older (aren't we all?) and his health has not been that great in the past, he may no longer be an option soon. I hope he has a plan to hand over his fabrication business to a younger guy. Hopefully, there will be enough business for one company to provide these basic parts for the small number of our cars left on the road (and aspirants to being on the road).

It's a pretty simple design. Maybe someone should come up with a detailed drawing so that it can be replicated by anybody in the future.

Offline gideon

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Re: It's not easy being green - 1971 TC
« Reply #243 on: Friday,August 02, 2024, 09:06:05 AM »
It's worth a mention that SJ Sportscars list replacement original type chassis on their website to 5 different designs, for example

https://www.sjsportscars.com/parts-and-accessories/SJ046A0002.htm

Of course "listed" isn't always the same thing as available in practice, but it might be.  If you're patient.  And if SJS can get them then perhaps some of the other usual suspects can too.  I am curious to know who might be the supplier for SJS.  Gartrac maybe?

https://www.gartrac.com/pages/lotus-chassis-fabrication
https://www.instagram.com/p/C6WhEmDIZ6V/?img_index=4

Offline BDA

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Re: It's not easy being green - 1971 TC
« Reply #244 on: Friday,August 02, 2024, 09:36:46 AM »
Gartrac certainly seems like a candidate to take up the Europa torch but for the moment, they appear to be happy with their Elan frame business. Since the Spyder website has not been updated with their new Europa policy it doesn't give any clues about changes to their Elan frame and parts business. Presumably, they still make Elan tube frames. If so, that begs the question why drop Europa frames and parts? I don't see why any different skills are required to build a Europa fram than an Elan frame. Certainly they still have the jigs and patterns, etc. to build them. I can see how stocking frames would be an expense they might not want to have, of course.

And that would bring up the possibility of somebody buying their patterns, jigs, drawings, etc. and producing their own copies of Spyder's frames.

The more I think about it, the more questions I have but one thing we have to come to terms with is that for whatever reason, Elans are more popular than Europas and so support for Europas will be an even more niche business than Elans (in spite of the fact that according to Wikipedia, there were roughly the same number of Elans and Europas built).

Offline Kendo

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Re: It's not easy being green - 1971 TC
« Reply #245 on: Friday,August 02, 2024, 09:39:54 AM »
I imagine for a lot of people "Little British car" == convertible.

Offline Kendo

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Re: It's not easy being green - 1971 TC
« Reply #246 on: Friday,August 02, 2024, 09:44:00 AM »
Also, I thought I read here about someone looking for a front frame section from Spyder, that they had stopped making it because the person retired. (But I can't find the reference going back several pages in this thread.)

Offline BDA

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Re: It's not easy being green - 1971 TC
« Reply #247 on: Friday,August 02, 2024, 09:51:13 AM »
I don't remember which thread (maybe earlier in this thread?) but I remember pretty much the same thing. I don't remember if the guy who retired/left retrofitted new 'T' sections onto a customer's frame or just made them to be grafted on. I think the former. I'm not a welder but I can sort of see (and maybe I'm wrong) where you'd want somebody with experience to do that but to build their own tube frame... I don't get it.

Offline TurboFource

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Re: It's not easy being green - 1971 TC
« Reply #248 on: Friday,August 02, 2024, 12:12:45 PM »
I thought Nukem (maybe?) was working on a t-section replacement?
The more I do the more I find I need to do....remember your ABC’s …anything but chinesium!

Offline Cheguava

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Re: It's not easy being green - 1971 TC
« Reply #249 on: Sunday,September 01, 2024, 01:44:44 PM »
It's been a quiet few weeks - a combination of house guests and still waiting to ship the body off for restoration, but hopefully that should be happening this month. I've spun the car round so I can pull the chassis out easier - as an eejit I didn't realise that the engine height meant it would be far easier to wheel it out backwards.

The rust in the chassis at the front unfortunately extends backwards of the T piece - the handbrake pivot bolt tube has distorted as a result of the rust, the top of the chassis there has torn, so it does look like a full new chassis might be the best solution. I'm still researching where that might best be sourced, but have a little time whilst I disassemble the suspension and drivetrain elements.

The sheer weight of the bulkhead fire / soundproofing was astonishing - somewhere around 8-9 kilos, the original (coconut matting?) seems undamaged but perhaps modern substitutes could do the job better?   

Offline BDA

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Re: It's not easy being green - 1971 TC
« Reply #250 on: Sunday,September 01, 2024, 03:47:37 PM »
In the absence of Spyder, I would go with Lotus Supplies. It looks like they have a spaceframe chassis. In addition to reproduction Lotus frames.

Offline TurboFource

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Re: It's not easy being green - 1971 TC
« Reply #251 on: Sunday,September 01, 2024, 04:11:36 PM »
That is quite rusty !  :o
The more I do the more I find I need to do....remember your ABC’s …anything but chinesium!

Offline dakazman

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Re: It's not easy being green - 1971 TC
« Reply #252 on: Sunday,September 01, 2024, 05:23:17 PM »
It's been a quiet few weeks - a combination of house guests and still waiting to ship the body off for restoration, but hopefully that should be happening this month. I've spun the car round so I can pull the chassis out easier - as an eejit I didn't realise that the engine height meant it would be far easier to wheel it out backwards.

The rust in the chassis at the front unfortunately extends backwards of the T piece - the handbrake pivot bolt tube has distorted as a result of the rust, the top of the chassis there has torn, so it does look like a full new chassis might be the best solution. I'm still researching where that might best be sourced, but have a little time whilst I disassemble the suspension and drivetrain elements.
 

The sheer weight of the bulkhead fire / soundproofing was astonishing - somewhere around 8-9 kilos, the original (coconut matting?) seems undamaged but perhaps modern substitutes could do the job better?

   I don’t know if you have the time to download the blueprints of the S2 frame and make comments and dimensions. Others have been looking for Tc frame dimensions. See link
http://www.lotus-europa.com/manuals/misc/Lotus%20europa%20chassis%20drawing.pdf
 It may help you also if you attempt to repair yourself.
  Serge also rebuilt his frame and has them documented on YouTube.
Dakazman

Offline Dilkris

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Re: It's not easy being green - 1971 TC
« Reply #253 on: Monday,September 02, 2024, 03:23:29 AM »
Quote from Cheguava's post above - "The sheer weight of the bulkhead fire / soundproofing was astonishing - somewhere around 8-9 kilos, the original (coconut matting?) seems undamaged but perhaps modern substitutes could do the job better?"

I am thinking way ahead here but I know this is an area I have equally to address in due course - what has been the common repair/replacement for this "firewall" ?
Is it intended to function as a firewall or as a sound deadening barrier? 

Offline 4129R

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Re: It's not easy being green - 1971 TC
« Reply #254 on: Monday,September 02, 2024, 04:40:26 AM »
I assumed that the material attached to the bulkhead from the engine side, was there to waterproof the bulkhead, which is made from thick cardboard and therefore highly absorbent to any water.

I have used black vinyl floor covering material, used for bathroom floors. Easily available, easily cut, and obviously very waterproof.