What is the discount code for a US spec Europa Twincam?

[berni29]

Hi There

I have a thread in the classified section looking for a project Twincam Europa. There seem to be more US spec LHD project Europas around than Elans or +2's.

I have been told (by someone who knows) to just stay away as they will never be worth anything like as much as a UK car once restored. This does not overly worry me as such because if I do one I doubt I will be selling it, but you never know, and I have never driven one.

Is there a standard discount that applies to the value of LHD cars, either as projects or restored cars? For example a CAT D Porsche will always be worth 25% - 30% less than a non CAT equivalent car almost regardless of any other factors.

Thoughts please!

Berni

[Bryan Boyle]

Hi There

I have a thread in the classified section looking for a project Twincam Europa. There seem to be more US spec LHD project Europas around than Elans or +2's.

I have been told (by someone who knows) to just stay away as they will never be worth anything like as much as a UK car once restored. This does not overly worry me as such because if I do one I doubt I will be selling it, but you never know, and I have never driven one.

Is there a standard discount that applies to the value of LHD cars, either as projects or restored cars? For example a CAT D Porsche will always be worth 25% - 30% less than a non CAT equivalent car almost regardless of any other factors.

Thoughts please!

Berni

They are worth whatever one is willing to pay for the privilege of owning one.

On the flip side, a RHD car over here is less desirable for most people than a LHD car.  Differences aside (and they mostly have to do with fuel delivery/emissions and perhaps ignition timing, etc.) they are the same basic car once you get to the TC range.  Oh, headlight height (though at this point, a fair number have been returned to their design (not bureaucratic-impressed) height, and one can't argue that the restraint imperatives were all bad.

There's an old saying "if you want to make a small fortune in car restoration, start with a large fortune."  Applies to refinishing cars as much as rebuilding aircraft (I've done both...my profile photo is in a Cessna I took a couple years returning to service...talk about trusting your mechanical skills, right?).  Except for rare (Europas are not rare...uncommon, but define 'rare'?  Rare to me is a GT250, not a flimsy plastic car built so the company principal had a revenue stream to race in F1) examples...the documented last one off the line in 1975...the first S1...Chunky's personal car...again, these are worth whatever one is willing to spend.

So...choose the car that YOU like, and to heck with what people think or say.  It's YOUR ride.  If it makes you happy, that's all that's important, in the end.  (and you can convert LHD to RHD; just takes, like anything else, money.  But the bones are there to do so (ie holes drilled in chassis and the parts from the usual suspects on your side))

(Putting on kevlar suit...)

[BDA]

I don't see the need for the Kevlar suit. My only quibble with your post is that I believe the Europa is rare (~10,000 built 50+ years ago implies that fewer than 5000 still exist worldwide even with new ones being built by Richard at Banks and I suspect some Japanese guys) but I think your point might be that it is not a "fine" car (maybe I'll need that Kevlar suit now) and that I do agree with. It is a simple car that is built simply and inexpensively (cheaply). It's a lot of things - fun, interesting, unique, beautiful or ugly, etc. but I can't say it's a "fine" car. I think that is partly due to the imprecise nature of the way some parts fit.

As for not making money on a restoration, I think that's a given for most cars, even "fine" ones (though I'm extrapolating here with minimal experience). I do wonder if Bob Herzog makes money on his Elans. They are beautiful and his name being associated with one commands a premium price. I'm sure there are some who do turn a profit but I suspect they are rare. The people who make money on restorations are the parts guys and the shops used in the restoration.

[gideon]

Alex can tell you every detail of what's needed to convert an LHD TC to RHD.  I imagine the most complex part would be the wiring for the new dash.  FWIW, I drove an LHD car in the UK for years and it didn't bother me.

[berni29]

Hi Guys

Thank you so much for your thoughts.

Maybe I should leave a LHD car as LHD. I hadn't really considered that seriously as an option. I wonder........ It's not like I do not have enough RHD cars haha.

The fedral side indicators would have to go though.

Thanks again!

Berni

[4129R]

Alex can tell you every detail of what's needed to convert an LHD TC to RHD.  I imagine the most complex part would be the wiring for the new dash.  FWIW, I drove an LHD car in the UK for years and it didn't bother me.

We are in touch. If anyone else is considering converting LHD to RHD, contact me as I can tell you everything you need to know.

[EuropaTC]

As has already been posted, Alex on here has repatriated quite a few Europas from USA to UK, so even if he's struggling with DVLA beauracracy at the moment he's definitely your best source of advice.

LHD/RHD doesn't seem that a big deal because should you wish to sell then 20-odd miles across the channel there's a decent sized LHD market. 

Probably the hardest difference to address will be the emmissions and carbs, generally speaking on the UK Elan & +2 market the cars with weber/dellorto seem to be more desirable than those on strombergs.  Even Lotus changed their minds about Strombergs in the Elans and reverted to weber/dellorto for the home market. But if you're happy with Strombergs then fine, I doubt you'd have much of a problem in general driving.

Something not mentioned is tuning for more power which will be much easier with a Weber/Dellorto head and be aware that changing cylinder heads will be expensive.

Brian

[4129R]

Something not mentioned is tuning for more power which will be much easier with a Weber/Dellorto head and be aware that changing cylinder heads will be expensive.

About £2k for Webers head/head mod, and jets.

[Bryan Boyle]

Something not mentioned is tuning for more power which will be much easier with a Weber/Dellorto head and be aware that changing cylinder heads will be expensive.

About £2k for Webers head/head mod, and jets.

All that being said...was thinking of making a trip across the lake after I retire this year to burn off some airline miles...anyone interested in meeting up somewhere (a trip to the factory/CTL is def on the agenda) and letting me experience (you in the right seat) some of those back country winding lanes I keep hearing about, with a pint or two at the end?

[4129R]

I am close to the factory and there is a magnificent pub nearby to where my herd are kept. 

[berni29]

Hello again guys, and thank you for the replies.

Quick question, I have been looking at various videos, write ups and pictures of Europas, and some cars seem to have side markers (indicators) on the front wings and some not. What is correct?

Thanks again

Berni

[Bryan Boyle]

I am close to the factory and there is a magnificent pub nearby to where my herd are kept. 

Don't want to stand out (obviously not a native), but may take you up on that.   

[Kendo]

bernie29, the side markers are a Federal requirement. So not applicable to cars destined for other markets. Of course if Lotus had too many Federal cars at any point, they might end up in other parts of the world.

[Richard48Y]

My experience has been to not get overly concerned with originality or completeness for any car you are going to rebuild from the frame up.
My S2 was bought more for having a Cross-Flow engine on Webers than it's alleged "Just a little TLC needed" condition.
In theory it needed little having been put away as a running car.
Theory and practice often differ.
I am finally beginning to reassemble, after not only being down to the bare frame but also repairing it as well.

My '68 El Camino "Ran" and drove when purchased but was rusty around the wheel wells front and rear.
Once I began to restore/upgrade it I find that the only original pieces on completion will be the main body cab, doors, and some trim pieces.
Engine, trans, rear suspension, front suspension, chassis, windscreen, gauges, seating, forward sheet metal, rear 1/4's sheetmetal, wheels, and sundry other bits all replaced.
My Lotus is actually the simpler build!
To be fair a lot of this due to my insistence on having a unique vehicle on completion.

Point is that if you are doing a full restoration a lot of the original parts present may be replaced anyway.
So you may want to make an offer on that slightly buggered TC on feeBay?
If the body is not full of old poor repairs it seems a decent start for a full restoration.
Shipping to the UK may be insane however, and I expect import duty may be punishing?

[4129R]

From my experience, the inset side repeat indicator front and side lights rear, are fitted to cars exported to the USA and Canada.

But, my original Europa TCS, 75032429P was one of the very last UK spec cars, and that had the Federal inset lights, as presumably Lotus only had US Federal bodyshells left when production was stopping.