Author Topic: Which NG3 is this?  (Read 2208 times)

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Offline Kendo

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Re: Which NG3 is this?
« Reply #15 on: Tuesday,February 13, 2024, 04:29:27 PM »
I remember reading an early history of the development of the Esprit. They expected the new engine to deliver more than 150 HP and thought the existing 365? transmission wouldn't take it.

Offline BDA

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Re: Which NG3 is this?
« Reply #16 on: Tuesday,February 13, 2024, 07:56:03 PM »
Interesting... I certainly don't know as much as the Lotus engineers but 150 hp max for a 365 seems like a pretty low number.


Offline jbcollier

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Re: Which NG3 is this?
« Reply #17 on: Tuesday,February 13, 2024, 10:27:49 PM »
The Esprit is a heavier car.  Much less likely to relieve stress by spinning its wheels.

Offline BDA

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Re: Which NG3 is this?
« Reply #18 on: Wednesday,February 14, 2024, 09:01:16 AM »
I keep going back to Jensen Motors’ racing Europa which used a 336. Light car to be sure but also used slicks so there wouldn’t be any slipping tires to relieve stress on the tranny and it’s guaranteed that their TC motor generated substantially more than 150bhp with similar torque increases (see my educated WAG on a previous post).

I’m thinking if the 365 was rejected for the Esprit, maybe it was more for longer term durability.

Another thought: could the final choice (Citroen?) have had better gear ratios?

Offline TurboFource

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Re: Which NG3 is this?
« Reply #19 on: Wednesday,February 14, 2024, 01:38:20 PM »
They didn’t run a 365 5 speed as the rules limited them to a 4 speed ….   maybe their Twin Cam with the 336 and they ran it
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Offline TurboFource

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Re: Which NG3 is this?
« Reply #20 on: Wednesday,February 14, 2024, 01:39:40 PM »
Does the NG3 have the same input shaft splines  as the 352 etc?
The more I do the more I find I need to do....remember your ABC’s …anything but chinesium!

Offline BDA

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Re: Which NG3 is this?
« Reply #21 on: Wednesday,February 14, 2024, 01:51:23 PM »
Yes, the splines are the same so you can use a standard TC clutch, but just to remind you, the NG3 has an input shaft that does not ride in the pilot bushing (clutch spigot bearing) in the flywheel. That's why you need the Fuego pilot bearing (which includes a seal - see attached photo).

Offline TurboFource

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Re: Which NG3 is this?
« Reply #22 on: Wednesday,February 14, 2024, 02:28:07 PM »
BDA,
This goes in the crank?
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Offline Blitzen

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Re: Which NG3 is this?
« Reply #23 on: Wednesday,February 14, 2024, 03:11:20 PM »

Offline BDA

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Re: Which NG3 is this?
« Reply #24 on: Wednesday,February 14, 2024, 07:03:25 PM »
I'm glad you posted that because I was going to forget it.

I'd also point out this page which explains a lot of what needs to be done for using an NG3 (https://www.greytower.com/jon/lotus/europa/gearbox/gearbox.html). This page implements Richard's (at Europa Engineering) method of using an NG3 with a Europa. Part of that is Richard's way of doing the shift linkage. It requires some changes in the end cover which are described on that page. The linkage is very similar to the S2 linkage with cross tree/bell crank type arrangement near the front of the 'Y' of the frame and so if the body is on  your frame, it might be difficult to attach the pivot for the cross tree to the frame. That being the case, a cable shifter might be the way to go. The link that Blitzen posted hopefully gives enough information on how to implement that on your car. There are other designs for cable shifters: (http://lotus-europa.com/manuals/files/Shifter.PDF) and (https://groups.io/g/LotusEuropa/files/Cable%20Shifter) and (https://groups.io/g/LotusEuropa/files/NG3%20Cable%20Shift) and probably others (some of those may be dupes)

There are some modifications described in the greytower link I posted above that might be advisable but not required. For example, he describes beefing up the hole where the NG3 pilot bearing goes. I didn't do that because Richard didn't mention it to me. I don't know if Richard decided it wasn't absolutely necessary or he forgot but I haven't had any trouble in that area. I think there might be some other mods mentioned in the greytower link. I don't think I did any of them. Richard sent me a kit including tranny, mounts, linkage materials, pilot bearing, and hardware. I just assembled it.

Well, "just" isn't really accurate. My frame was for a 365 or 352. When we test fit the tranny, the rear hoop interfered. It didn't look like we could get it to fit so Richard sent me a 336 rear hoop which did the trick. All that being said, I have seen an NG3 installed in a 352/365 frame (or at least pictures of it). It was accomplished by dimpling the portion of the rear hoop that fouled the tranny so it can be done and it is probably easier than replacing the rear hoop.

The Renault pilot bearing is apparently rare. I notice that they are out of stock at Lotus Supplies and Kelvedon. There are two options: find a rare one or make your own. I got a bearing for my NG3 from a fellow in Canada who sourced one. He seems to be able to find unobtainable Renault parts so I would try him. His email is olivier at ateliermahoa dot com. He also has a Facebook page for his business (https://www.facebook.com/ateliermahoa/). I would try Olivier first. However making one doesn't look like it would be that difficult. I made some measurements that should be enough to make your own and you can make it better by making it rebuildable (replace the seal and bearing).A company makes a similar rebuildable pilot bearing for the Mitsubishi 3000 (https://www.3sx.com/3sx-high-performance-billet-input-shaft-bearing-for-5-6-speeds). The concept is pretty simple and should be easy enough to replicate for the smaller NG3 bearing.

Offline Blitzen

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Re: Which NG3 is this?
« Reply #25 on: Wednesday,February 14, 2024, 10:22:43 PM »
Something not mentioned by anyone but that I found necessary was to clearance the back of the bellhousing for the crown.   There was slight contact so I had to grind out a small but.  Worth checking before you assemble to bellhousing to the NG3.

Offline TurboFource

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Re: Which NG3 is this?
« Reply #26 on: Thursday,February 15, 2024, 05:03:03 AM »
I am beginning to think this is a lot of trouble for a transaxle with poor parts availability.
Maybe a Porsche Boxster 5 speed would be better, engine adapters are available and parts …..
and it has a 3.50 first gear instead of a 4.09 !
« Last Edit: Thursday,February 15, 2024, 05:25:01 AM by TurboFource »
The more I do the more I find I need to do....remember your ABC’s …anything but chinesium!

Offline kram350kram

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Re: Which NG3 is this?
« Reply #27 on: Thursday,February 15, 2024, 06:24:05 PM »
I used a 2004 G86/01 Porsche Boxster 5 speed complete with hydraulic slave, shifter box and cables. 3:56 final drive. The ratios are 3:50/2:11/1.43/1.09/.838,
pretty close to the stock TCS 4 speed. With the torque of the V-8, a 3:50 first is a waste, but with a peaky motor might be helpful? The stock Lotus 4 spoeed was a 3:61 first. Kennedy Enginnering did the adapter and supplied flywheel and clutch. A .75" master cylinder works fine with the stock Porsche slave. Just got the thing bleed and everthing seems to work, pedal not too hard.  To use the shifter box I had to move the water lines to the bottom of the center of the main back bone, but the cables were the correct length for my V-8 project. Hope this helps. Have pictures if you want.

Offline TurboFource

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Re: Which NG3 is this?
« Reply #28 on: Friday,February 16, 2024, 03:34:51 AM »
Thanks Kram, I just read your whole build thread again last night as I remembered you were running the Boxster 5 speed. If you have any pics you haven’t posted yet they are of course, appreciated!
The more I do the more I find I need to do....remember your ABC’s …anything but chinesium!

Offline GavinT

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Re: Which NG3 is this?
« Reply #29 on: Friday,February 16, 2024, 01:07:32 PM »
Those Boxster boxes are big, though, aren't they?
How do the drive shafts line up after a bell housing adaptor is also bolted on?