S2 LHD-RHD Chassis Numbers

[mbracing]

A question for the experts:
It is possible to understand from a chassis number if a car was originally built in LHD or RHD form?
Other marques do has, for example, an “L” prefix when the car is LHD. Does Lotus do the same for the Europa or the only way to discover this is to ask an Heritage Certificate to Lotus? And by the way, on some books there is written the S2 models were built in RHD, this means all the LHD S2s you see around are converted/modified?
Kindest regards, thanks.
mbracing

[TurboFource]

 

Not sure about your question…I know LHD Europas were produced for export markets before RHD was produced for the home market

[mbracing]

Thank you TurboFource
But the main question is if there is a number or a letter in the chassis number that denotes if the car was originally built as LHD or RHD.
mbracing

[BDA]

Looking here (http://lotus-europa.com/manuals/tcparts/intro/intro.pdf) the last letter of the VIN gives the market the car was built for. ‘P’ for Great Britain and Northern Ireland, ‘Q’ for export, and ‘R’ for Federal which I think refers to the US and Canada. The ‘Q’ seems indeterminative since presumably “export” could mean France, which would be left hand drive, or Australia, which would be right hand drive.

That’s as close as I can get.

[Bryan Boyle]

Thank you TurboFource
But the main question is if there is a number or a letter in the chassis number that denotes if the car was originally built as LHD or RHD.
mbracing

The suffix of the chassis number determines the market.  One can assume that those sent to RHD countries (AU, NZ, etc) would be suffixed by the same as the UK, but I'm not sure.  In the manual is  the coding:

  Model                      Style                        Market                            Suffix
  -----                        -----                         ------                              ------
 Elan STD              Coupe                      G. Britain & N. Ireland      A
 Elan STD              Coupe                      Export            B
 Elan STD              Convertible               G. Britain & N. Ireland   C
 Elan STD              Convertible           Export            D
 Elan S/E              Coupe              G. Britain & N. Ireland    E
 Elan S/E              Coupe              Export            F
 Elan S/E              Convertible           G. Britain & N. Ireland   G
 Elan S/E              Convertible           Export            H
 Elan Federal      Coupe              Export            J
 Elan Federal      Convertible           Export            K
 Elan +2'S'      Coupe              G. Britain & N. Ireland         L
 Elan +2'S'      Coupe              Export            M
 Elan +2'S' Federal   Coupe              Export             N
 Europa         Coupe              G. Britain & N. Ireland   P
 Europa         Coupe              Export            Q
 Europa Federal      Coupe              Export            R

Note, there were some "R" models that were retained in the UK and converted to RHD at some point...some may have more info on this than I.  This doesn't account for an R model (ie US-spec) which an owner may have sold for repatriation and subsequently converted. 

Best place to ask, at least for how it was pushed out of the shed in Hethel, would be to contact Andy Graham (corporate archivist) at Lotus to research the build listing.

[mbracing]

Looking here (http://lotus-europa.com/manuals/tcparts/intro/intro.pdf) the last letter of the VIN gives the market the car was built for. ‘P’ for Great Britain and Northern Ireland, ‘Q’ for export, and ‘R’ for Federal which I think refers to the US and Canada. The ‘Q’ seems indeterminative since presumably “export” could mean France, which would be left hand drive, or Australia, which would be right hand drive.

That’s as close as I can get.

Thank you, this is very interesting. Therefore there is not a specific letter or number in the chassis sequence to identify where the steering wheel is but just a “final destination” code that in any case is not specifying if the car was built as LHD or RHD. At the end the only way to be 100% sure is to ask to Mr.Graham at the Lotus Factory. Thanks again,
mbracing

[BDA]

Yeah, Andy Graham would be the best source of that kind of information. Kind of clumsy to have to go the the Lotus archivist to find a simple thing like where the steering wheel was. Actually, the design of the cars made it pretty easy to move the steering wheel so (as our own 4921R can attest) so Andy may only be able to say where it started out!

I might also say that there is very little information in the "complete" VIN or chassis number. I think this only refers to TCs and TCSs:
yymmxxxxm where yy is the year and mm the month of manufacture, xxxx is the serial number, and m is the market. As you likely know, this is clouded a bit because only the xxxxm part, not the entire VIN, is on the plate under the windshield. It is also scribled on the doors and body. Some form of the number (I'm not sure if it is the complete VIN or just the xxxxm part) is stamped on the frame but replacement frames are not uncommon.

[Bryan Boyle]

Yeah, Andy Graham would be the best source of that kind of information. Kind of clumsy to have to go the the Lotus archivist to find a simple thing like where the steering wheel was. Actually, the design of the cars made it pretty easy to move the steering wheel so (as our own 4921R can attest) so Andy may only be able to say where it started out!

I might also say that there is very little information in the "complete" VIN or chassis number. I think this only refers to TCs and TCSs:
yymmxxxxm where yy is the year and mm the month of manufacture, xxxx is the serial number, and m is the market. As you likely know, this is clouded a bit because only the xxxxm part, not the entire VIN, is on the plate under the windshield. It is also scribled on the doors and body. Some form of the number (I'm not sure if it is the complete VIN or just the xxxxm part) is stamped on the frame but replacement frames are not uncommon.

The YYMMXXXXY sequence started with production after January 1, 1970.  For instance, I have a build plate and window tag for the 0004R, which reads 70010004R (the 4th car of January 1970 for the US, also the 4th Europa with the bonded windshield which started on the same date, as a matter of trivia) with the S2 run (at least for the US).  Up to 1/1/1970, typically the sequence number (not really a VIN) was type/serial (as in 65/XXXX) where it was a little more nebulous. 

The registry, though not maintained for a few years, has the breakout of a lot of cars and where they slot in the run.  Remember, the 17 character VINs didn't come about until later in the 70s (IIRC), and based on the age of the cars, number of rebuilds, mixing and matching, whether the restored vehicle assumed a serial based on any numbers of factors (replacement frame, where the majority of parts came from, etc), it can be an archeological expedition to find just what your car is.

Typically, the body/chassis unit had the last 3 or 4 digits in china marker on the fiberglass of the tunnel, the doors had the number engraved in the fiberglass shell under the trim cover; boot and bonnet lids didn't (to my recollection) have any identifying numbers, and the frame had a number stamped on the right rear chassis member.  The engine and tranny numbers were assigned (and listed where known in the registry) to a specific sequence number.  (FWIW, 693R had a rude comment on the tunnel after the number...guess the worker wasn't satisfied with his lot in life when mine came down the line...lol).

[mbracing]

Yeah, Andy Graham would be the best source of that kind of information. Kind of clumsy to have to go the the Lotus archivist to find a simple thing like where the steering wheel was. Actually, the design of the cars made it pretty easy to move the steering wheel so (as our own 4921R can attest) so Andy may only be able to say where it started out!

I might also say that there is very little information in the "complete" VIN or chassis number. I think this only refers to TCs and TCSs:
yymmxxxxm where yy is the year and mm the month of manufacture, xxxx is the serial number, and m is the market. As you likely know, this is clouded a bit because only the xxxxm part, not the entire VIN, is on the plate under the windshield. It is also scribled on the doors and body. Some form of the number (I'm not sure if it is the complete VIN or just the xxxxm part) is stamped on the frame but replacement frames are not uncommon.

The YYMMXXXXY sequence started with production after January 1, 1970.  For instance, I have a build plate and window tag for the 0004R, which reads 70010004R (the 4th car of January 1970 for the US, also the 4th Europa with the bonded windshield which started on the same date, as a matter of trivia) with the S2 run (at least for the US).  Up to 1/1/1970, typically the sequence number (not really a VIN) was type/serial (as in 65/XXXX) where it was a little more nebulous. 

The registry, though not maintained for a few years, has the breakout of a lot of cars and where they slot in the run.  Remember, the 17 character VINs didn't come about until later in the 70s (IIRC), and based on the age of the cars, number of rebuilds, mixing and matching, whether the restored vehicle assumed a serial based on any numbers of factors (replacement frame, where the majority of parts came from, etc), it can be an archeological expedition to find just what your car is.

Typically, the body/chassis unit had the last 3 or 4 digits in china marker on the fiberglass of the tunnel, the doors had the number engraved in the fiberglass shell under the trim cover; boot and bonnet lids didn't (to my recollection) have any identifying numbers, and the frame had a number stamped on the right rear chassis member.  The engine and tranny numbers were assigned (and listed where known in the registry) to a specific sequence number.  (FWIW, 693R had a rude comment on the tunnel after the number...guess the worker wasn't satisfied with his lot in life when mine came down the line...lol).

Thanks. The car I’m looking at is one of the very last as the first 4 digits are 7108 that means August 1971. If the books are right the S2 production ended in that month, therefore it is really one of the latest if not the last. I already sent the full chassis number to Mr.Graham, let’s see what he will find out.
mbracing

[BDA]

You might want to check out the registry here (http://lotus-europa.com/regs2.html). As Bryan said, it probably hasn't been updated in quite some time but you might find your car in there and there could be some information there.

Bryan, thanks for the further explanation about the VINs. It's not really my bailiwick (if I even really have a bailiwick in the first place!) but I thought I knew enough to say something intelligent about it. I also think it's kinda cool (and funny!) that one of the workers used your car as an editorial platform!

[Bryan Boyle]

***DELETIA***

Bryan, thanks for the further explanation about the VINs. It's not really my bailiwick (if I even really have a bailiwick in the first place!) but I thought I knew enough to say something intelligent about it. I also think it's kinda cool (and funny!) that one of the workers used your car as an editorial platform!

It was rude, no doubt, to british ears, but probably would pass by us colonials without comment.  I'll leave it at that. 

[mbracing]

You might want to check out the registry here (http://lotus-europa.com/regs2.html). As Bryan said, it probably hasn't been updated in quite some time but you might find your car in there and there could be some information there.

Bryan, thanks for the further explanation about the VINs. It's not really my bailiwick (if I even really have a bailiwick in the first place!) but I thought I knew enough to say something intelligent about it. I also think it's kinda cool (and funny!) that one of the workers used your car as an editorial platform!

Thanks but I have already checked that Registry and all the last cars have the R code when the one I’m interested has a Q, and in any case the chassis number isn’t there.
Thanks in any way,
mbracing