Ownership of US Federal Number Plates

[4129R]

I have imported back to the UK 7 Federal TC Europas.

I am having trouble registering one of them for UK plates and the DVLA, (bureaucrats and real jobsworths) have asked me for photos of the car with number plates on it.

None of the 7 cars I have shipped back from the USA have had number plates attached.

Do the plates belong to the US State in which the car is registered?

Do you have to renew the plates every year?

Why are the plates removed when the cars are shipped abroad?

I need to explain to Mr Jobsworth why the car has no US plates attached.

[Clifton]

In the US they call them licence plates. In Arizona, you buy and own the license plate. If you sell the car, you keep the plate and use it on your next car when you register it. FWIW, I bought an old 1969 Arizona plate on Ebay and brought it to DMV and registered it to use on my car.

[4129R]

In the US they call them licence plates. In Arizona, you buy and own the license plate. If you sell the car, you keep the plate and use it on your next car when you register it. FWIW, I bought an old 1969 Arizona plate on Ebay and brought it to DMV and registered it to use on my car.

This car was registered in Pennsylvania.

Does each state have different rules on ownership?

[BDA]

US "license plates" are different from UK "number plates." License plates do not follow the car. In fact, a car can have more than one license plate during it's lifetime. Since license plates are given out by the state, if a car goes from one state to another and is re-registered, it will receive a new plate. If you are really trying to figure that out, you have to consider that each state is like a quasi country. But it's really more "fluid" than that because in the States, we have antique plates if your car is over 20 or 25 years old. We have "vanity plates" which allow you to personalize your plate with your own "message" of 8 characters. Then some states allow a choice of plate that says you are a pet lover, a veteran, support a certain team, etc. So a car can can have had more than one plate even if the owner and state of registration doesn't change. Mine has. They are only, the best I figure because I've never really thought about it, a way for a cop to figure out who owns a vehicle and for the state to take more of your money. Each year, the registration (which the plate ultimately signifies) has to be renewed. In North Carolina, that means you have to put a sticker on your plate to signify it has been renewed.

In answer to your last question, There are different rules in each state. Usually, plates are issued by the sate but I know people with old MGs who registered their car as an antique and were issued antique plates but they mount a plate from the year of the car but they keep their antique plate under the seat of their car. I don't know how that actually works with the police but it's apparently not a problem.

That's probably a lot more than you wanted/needed to know but your local bureaucrat needs to know that you shouldn't expect a plate to be on the car when you get it from the States. If he or she needs to know that it was a legal car in the states, the Department of Motor Vehicles in the state where it came from should have a record of registration keyed on the VIN. With a Europa, that might be the 5 characters on the plate under the windshield or the "whole" number which includes the month and year of manufacture. A policeman might want to check the VIN of your car to check to see if it's stolen and he would check that plate under the windshield. It should line up with the registration (and thus the plate). I don't know if there is a problem if your registration has the complete VIN (manufacture date + serial number) which is not on the VIN plate under the windshield...

Whew!!! Hopefully that helps!

[4129R]

With a Europa, that might be the 5 characters on the plate under the windshield or the "whole" number which includes the month and year of manufacture. A policeman might want to check the VIN of your car to check to see if it's stolen and he would check that plate under the windshield. It should line up with the registration (and thus the plate). I don't know if there is a problem if your registration has the complete VIN (manufacture date + serial number) which is not on the VIN plate under the windshield... !

My problem is the idiot in Pennsylvania who gave out the Title Certificate called the car 75/3089R, whereas the import papers quite rightly call the car 74/3089R and the VIN plate calls it 73023089R, therefore the idiot jobsworth at DVLA is so stupid he cannot process the paperwork as 753089R does not equal 743089R. So he wants to see the number plates etc. etc. whereas if he deals with imported cars he should know that other countries such as the USA and Germany do not fix the plate to the car, but the plate to the owner.

I have asked Andy Graham for help. If an email from Lotus confirming the identity of the car, and he has actually been to my barn and seen the actual car, does not convince Mr Jobsworth, I will be making an official complaint to DVLA as they are idiots. Two other cars had the right paperwork, but instead of S30471 for the engine number, Mr Jobsworth has put 530471 for the engine number, and called the date of first registration 1/1/74, when they were clearly registered in other months.

[BDA]

I feel for you. If nothing else works, I wonder if you could title the car as though you made it from parts or you designed and built it yourself...

[4129R]

I believe a Certificate of Providence from Andy Graham should be sufficient to convince Mr Jobsworth, or his manager.

[BDA]

My fingers are crossed for you! Let us know how it turns out.

[4129R]

My fingers are crossed for you! Let us know how it turns out.

Well I have received a letter and a Certificate of Provenance from Andy Graham at Lotus Archives, and sent it to DVLA. He works about 10 miles away from my home and has actually been to my home and seen this car.

If that does not convince DVLA of the true identity of this car, then I will make a formal complaint to DVLA.

It is a bit like asking a mother to identify her baby. If she can't, who the hell can ?

[BDA]

Still crossing my fingers for you but I’m confused. What exactly is the rub? Are they unsure of the actual VIN? Admittedly, making a fake VIN plate probably wouldn’t be difficult but how does Andy’s Certificate of Provenance correct that? Are they doubting who actually owns the car? That it was actually imported from the USA? That it was built in the UK? That it’s actually a Lotus?   

[4129R]

Still crossing my fingers for you but I’m confused. What exactly is the rub? Are they unsure of the actual VIN? Admittedly, making a fake VIN plate probably wouldn’t be difficult but how does Andy’s Certificate of Provenance correct that? Are they doubting who actually owns the car? That it was actually imported from the USA? That it was built in the UK? That it’s actually a Lotus?   

The Pennsylvania title called it 75/3089R, the import customs documents called it 74/3089R. As these numbers did not match, DVLA have rejected my application 3 times now.

They wanted a picture of the number plates, the plate on the left door shut and the plate on the left on the dashboard seen through the windscreen. It had neither. It turns out the car was exported to Canada, not the USA.

Could any owner of a 73 TCS who owns one that was exported to Canada, not the USA, confirm that Canada export cars do not have the door and windscreen identifying plates which would have said in this case 3089R.

Andy sent me these documents.

If they don't prove the identity of the car, what can?

 

[BDA]

Not being a bureaucrat I am at a disadvantage when trying to understand what they are trying to do or why.

It seems to me there is a discrepancy in the VIN that is apparently related to some a snafu committed by some other bureaucrat. If there is no dispute that you legally own the car, can't they just say that the past of that car is muddied up but the present is crystal clear and assign a VIN? What if you built that car from parts what would they do?

I had a slight wrinkle when I went to register (and title - because I had lost the copy of the title over the years) my car. As it turned out, I had a copy of a notice mailed to me to remind me to have my registration renewed when I lived in Louisiana and for some reason, that was a huge help to the Department of Motor Vehicles in North Carolina to generate a new title and registration. (Don't ask me why that was helpful!) If that hadn't helped, I was thinking that there are lots of people who pull frames from junk yards, bodies from other cars, install modern engines and transmissions and build their own car from a mish mash of parts (that in many instances they may fabricate themselves) such that it would be impossible to say that it had a make/model/year and they manage to get their cars titled. I should be able to do that. Luckily, as I say, I didn't have to but I would assume that you would have a similar ability should it come down to it. Richard at Banks built new cars and he had to get them titled.

I realize I'm thinking about this as though there was some reason involved and I know that there isn't so I'm sort of venting here...

[Bainford]

Could any owner of a 73 TCS who owns one that was exported to Canada, not the USA, confirm that Canada export cars do not have the door and windscreen identifying plates which would have said in this case 3089R.

It is my understanding that cars shipped to Canada are federal spec (R), and should include both ID tags you specify.

[4129R]

Could any owner of a 73 TCS who owns one that was exported to Canada, not the USA, confirm that Canada export cars do not have the door and windscreen identifying plates which would have said in this case 3089R.

It is my understanding that cars shipped to Canada are federal spec (R), and should include both ID tags you specify.

FFS don't tell them that !

[4129R]

Not being a bureaucrat I am at a disadvantage when trying to understand what they are trying to do or why.

It seems to me there is a discrepancy in the VIN that is apparently related to some a snafu committed by some other bureaucrat. If there is no dispute that you legally own the car, can't they just say that the past of that car is muddied up but the present is crystal clear and assign a VIN? What if you built that car from parts what would they do?

Mr Jobsworth at DVLA has his instructions. The numbers on the title,  the customs import papers, and the application have to be identical. 75/3089R does not equal 74/3089R. It does not matter who made the SNAFU, A does not equal B. The fact that 3089R is unique does not matter, 75 does not equal 74. At least Andy Graham has said 3089R is unique. If Lotus does not know, who does?