336 gearbox - Clutch will not disengage.

[Bryan Boyle]

  Thanks Bryan.
  I know it takes a lot of time to reply to a thread and really appreciate any advice. After finding some scraps I figured, no harm in trying.
I read what you posted on Facebook to another thread on clutches and that he should extend the carrier crosshaft to the other side . So with that in mind I did just that . I also should be able to give the spherical to bearing to disengage the clutch fingers with the added throw of the arm. Clocked further back. Drilling two parallel holes were a little tedious but it work out .
  I also compared the tc and s2 housings same arm on both but the tc had a longer throw. It also had a spherical to bearing.  See last pic .
  It’s still a work in progress, fabricating the arms now.

Dakazman

Thanks!  Nice work, bro.  Thinking that will work just fine when you dial it in.

[dakazman]

  Your call inspiration Bryan,
  Anyway, I almost finished the arm, I’ll finish up by putting a torch on them ad finish the bends and trimming. I could have cut it out of the original but I like a fall back . If it works then just cutting the arm off and clocking it backwards, then rewelding will work for everyone.
Dakazman

[GavinT]

I believe that what you're dealing with is a problem that arose years ago when the flat-faced release bearings and associated pressure plates were NLA and replaced with the current type (round-faced release bearings that made contact with the pressure plate fingers). It caused a bit of consternation and apparently still does. The solution to the problem was to machine a release bearing hub, to replace the original one, that is longer, thus allowing the release bearing face to contact the pressure plate fingers. I don't have the dimensions for the new style hub, but years ago I bought one from Mark Markell who took the time to figure the solution and put the specs on the Golden Gate Lotus web site. I just looked for it and couldn't find it. But Mark is still a member of this group or maybe it's the other one Lotus Europa Groups. If not, I'm sure somebody else has been through this who can help you out.

Went to the Golden Gate site and found this:


Mark MarKell, Sr." <Type46@micro-engineering.com> Just a note about the clutch conversion we've been talking about. Some time ago I got disgusted with the price of a new or rebuilt Ferrodo 200D clutch with release pad as used in the Renault-powered versions of the Europa. Local rebuilders wouldn't touch it due to the unusual 3 eared release pad and the fibre facing needed. I found the Sachs clutch available from my local supplier for around $50 new. This is the replacement clutch for the Renault R-17 Gordini engine and is a bolt-up replacement as far as the flywheel is concerned. The main difference is the throwout bearing, which mounts similar to a TC with wire clips and needs a rounded face, rather than the slip-on flat unit required by the older Renault transaxle throwout fork. (the disk is the same.) At that point I generated a full Autocad drawing of the cross section for the flywheel, pressure plate, disk throwout bearing and transaxle and checked dimensions against a shop setup. I then found a suitable, but generic, throwout bearing and generated a drawing for the throwout bearing carrier which had to be about 1/2 inch longer than stock. We had 5 manufactured at my local machinist and did some tweaks to the drawings having to do with tolerances. David Davidian, Chris Munson, Mark Hollingsworth and I all have them installed and Jeff Hovis now has the setup built for Bob Bulfin to be installed on Jeff’s Gordini. This requires NO modifications to the flywheel or transaxle and the carrier is pressed into the bearing and can be re-used again later. The clutch operation is smoother than the original with a distinct 'over-center' feel. The clutch strength is the same as the original, maybe slightly stronger, and was originally installed in R-17 Gordinis. I can supply either the whole works or the drawings and a parts list. (So far no one has been able to buy the parts as cheap as I can supply them.) Supplying the copyrighted drawings will also imply free use of the drawing for anyone building their own, but a prohibition of building them for profit. I also make no profit from this venture. The Pressure plate was about $53, the disk $37 and the bearing about $19 if memory serves. The re-usable carrier ran $50. All parts new not rebuilt. BTW, a side issue was finding the generic equivalents for the pilot
bearing and the input shaft seal, both of which are CR parts available from most bearing houses. I mentioned this on the Lotus list about a year ago and there was very little interest. This work was spurred by problems David Davidian was having with a NEW clutch being very sticky and not disengaging. He eventually sent it to me and we found it was assembled incorrectly with one of the flat springs installed backwards. A call to the supplier found he was aware of the problem and had a number of others fail for the same reason, but was unwilling to take them back. If you have a similar problem with a new pressure plate drop me a line.

Here's the link:

https://www.gglotus.org/ggtech/europa-techinfo/lotuscht.htm

I did a page search for "Mark Markell" and the above post was at number 32 out of 39.

[GavinT]

Interested to see how your mod goes, D'man.

Repositioning the pins will gain release bearing travel, but is the arc of movement of the clutch fork then beyond optimal?
Maybe it has little impact on the heaviness of the clutch?

[jbcollier]

When I fit a 395 I had to modify the clutch fork quite a bit.  It went to the other side as well as a different orientation.  I ground off where the arm was welded to the shaft and flipped the shaft so it went out the other side.  I then fit the transaxle to the engine and welded the clutch fork arm back on in the orientation I needed. 

[dakazman]

Thanks Guys,
  I finished up making a new arm. I am bolting to the “New Kit” pressure plate and disc. Then just bolting on the bell housing where I can set the arms moment. I made it slightly longer to gain any mechanical advantage I can if possible . The cable has its limitations also when pulled.
Now with the carrier rod all the way through activation as a pusher is possible. It could also be used for some other feature.
 I should have it all installed later today , and I’ll post pics. Then I’ll pull it all back out and install the original clutch and plate but keeping the curved release bearing.

  Then I have another project to do and that is to build your jackstand listed here :

https://jbcollier.smugmug.com/Lotus-Europa/i-PRTWCMN/A
 
  This is another first for me working under car with a body. 😅

Dakazman

[TurboFource]

Good luck DMan!

[dakazman]

  Success 😃
   Installed the new clutch kit and pressure plate and just bell housing.
The free throw is  approximately 1/2 on shaft and 10 degrees if that on rotation of the carrier shaft.
Marked and cut shaft to the length it stuck out with the original shaft.
Drilled the shaft hole in the arm approximately the same as it was also . Tomorrow I’ll weld it up and see if the pressure plate releases the disc . It should Fall out of center alignment.

   I missed posting the shaft movement now, there are two sets of marks , yes. Movement is minimal!😃
Dakazman

[dakazman]

  Got it all welded up and painted but I’m waiting for the rear seal.

    I have a perfect use of the shaft on the opposite side. A clutch safety start switch and secondly as an anti theft device. 🤔
Dakazman

[dakazman]

  Then I have another project to do and that is to build your jackstand listed here :

https://jbcollier.smugmug.com/Lotus-Europa/i-PRTWCMN/A
  This is another first for me working under car with a body. 😅

Dakazman

    Safety first:
   I thought this would be a good time to build. I went into my storage shed and found an old tow bar I’ve been saving since the mid 90s, and said to myself, yep , that we’ll do.
About three hours later it was sitting under the backside of the car . What a difference, the car doesn’t move one bit.
  So , Thanks JB ,   You probably hear that a lot and I for one appreciate your input and ideas.
  So be cocky and a knowledgeable “B” 😂
At least now I won’t have this thing come down on me.
Dakazman

[dakazman]

   Received my seal for the bell housing today and installed it, and set the pins to the cross shaft. My total throw on the movement of the arm is now approximately 45 degrees, all of which is usable and gives it an additional throw of 1/2'.  I'll be installing the gearbox tomorrow. 
 
Dakazman
   

[TurboFource]

Fingers crossed….

[dakazman]

  Thanks Turbo,
Those fingers crossed must have worked.  I won today.  Except for one thing, the clutch pedal inside car stands up pretty much equal to the brake pedal. what keeps it from falling rearwards and onto the floor? Am I missing something?

   Thinking back with all the trouble with this clutch I seriously believe the PO tried his hand at something. He said he drove it but didnt say when, he stated he couldnt get first gear. My input shaft is different than what's required, meaning not pinned in the center. the clutch cable broken, the clutch cable forward abutment missing. the abutment and the shaft holes are in the manual.  all these items' members here have help me get through and across the finish line for now.
 I Thank you all.

   PS: now to pull the bell housing off and install gearbox.
 Dakazman
 
   

[BDA]

... the clutch pedal inside car stands up pretty much equal to the brake pedal. what keeps it from falling rearwards and onto the floor? Am I missing something?

Ultimately, the pressure plate keeps the pedal from falling to the floor because it keeps the throw out bearing from going past a certain point which keeps the cable from allowing the pedal going past a certain point... I think you get the idea.

The pedal is kept from falling rearward by a little post at the bottom of the pedal and the restricted motion of the clutch through the cable keeps the pedal from falling forward.

[dakazman]

  Thanks BDA,
  I just have too much disassembled and laying on the he floor. I think I just saw the full stop adjustment, the other must be under the carpet.
   When setting up the VW cable awhile back I pressed on the small stay on cable , well one activation of the pressure plate the cable blew off. 😂 I got it all squared away and tested. All good now. I’ll work on that adjustment and install the gearbox tomorrow. Then find the next problem.

Dakazman