Electrical gremlins

[Sparkrite]

I have worked through much of my electrical problems,but one still persists. Recently I had trouble in getting the starter motor to spin so ended up dismantling the ignition switch and cleaning up the contacts (very worthwhile),still no luck so I dismantled the starter solenoid and cleaned it all up (very very worthwhile). Now it works perfectly, but my electric windows decided not to work, and without any changes will then work again.This keeps happening with them and I have no idea why. I have re greased the gears and they work great when they want to.

[BDA]

You may have to work on your window switches. Check this out (http://lotus-europa.com/manuals/misc/electrical/switches.html). Upgrading to include relays in your window motor circuits (which I haven’t done yet) would be a good idea.

Friendly reminder that this page is a wealth of information (http://lotus-europa.com/manuals/index.htm). Unfortunately, the window motor relay schematic is one thing not found there but elsewhere on this forum. If you want it, I think I have a copy I can post.

[EuropaTC]

The first thing I'd check is the earth connections in the door, you might be getting a high resistance that sometimes works, sometimes doesn't.

I fitted relays to my car which made the world of difference to the speed of the windows. I added a heavier gauge wire feed to the relays and heck, it's almost like a proper car now. 

It's not difficult to do and the relays I used were cheap enough, IIRC less than a fiver each with two per door. The Up/Down wires from the window switches now fires the relay for up or down and there's plenty of room inside the door cavity for 2 relays and a mounting bracket.

Brian 

[Kendo]

Brian, how did you mount the relay bracket? Double sided tape? All surfaces to screw into look like they would break through to the other side.

[jbcollier]

If something doesn't work then troubleshooting is easy.  Follow the tail (circuit) until you get to the tiger (painful break).

[EuropaTC]

Brian, how did you mount the relay bracket? Double sided tape? All surfaces to screw into look like they would break through to the other side.

Hi,
I made an L shape bracket which holds both up & down relays side by side and also acts as a common earthing point for everything. The base of the bracket is bolted through the bottom of the door with domed set screws so you can't actually see anything unless you open the door, lie down & look up !

The relays are small, these were the ones I used on the Elan windows and I'm sure I just bought the same again for the Europa. It's a crude set-up, I have no doubt you could get some arrangement so you only need one relay but even with door speakers there's lots of space inside the door cavity/trim card.   

https://www.12voltplanet.co.uk/standard-mini-make-break-relay-normally-open-no-contacts-12v-40a.html

Brian

[Clifton]

There's a thermal switch on the window motors. Mine only worked when cool until I adjusted. It's been years  since I messed with them and didn't take pics but it wasn't hard to figure out.

[Pfreen]

I used four of these relays because the inside of the door gets wet.

https://www.amazon.com/ONLINE-LED-STORE-Waterproof-Harness/dp/B01N66W2XF/ref=asc_df_B01N66W2XF/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=312695966306&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=9250221206035097864&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=t&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9011805&hvtargid=pla-569688357979&th=1.

I mounted them to the inside of fiberglass in the door.

[Bryan Boyle]

I used four of these relays because the inside of the door gets wet.

https://www.amazon.com/ONLINE-LED-STORE-Waterproof-Harness/dp/B01N66W2XF/ref=asc_df_B01N66W2XF/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=312695966306&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=9250221206035097864&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=t&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9011805&hvtargid=pla-569688357979&th=1.

I mounted them to the inside of fiberglass in the door.

I'm wondering why mount the relays inside the door?  I would think it would be easier to mount under the instrument panel, near where the existing wires go through the panel to the door.  Don't have to disassemble the door, fewer wires to pull through that small tube assembly, and a shorter run of the high-current wire from the fuse block to the relay common.

Upside? You can debug without disassembling the door and protecting from water is (hopefully, unless your cockpit and door seals are perished) easier.  Ground is <18" away at the lower dash mount. 

Downside?  You have to break into the existing harness.

Just my thoughts...

[EuropaTC]

Once the door trim is off I'd say it's easier to mount the relays than adopting the Lotus Position in the footwell ? 

But my main reason for in-door mounting was that I could use heavier gauge wire from the relays to the motor and beef up the earth return rather than the weedy Lotus loom.

So pretty much everything inside the door is new, I cut back the actuating wires from the switch inside the cabin where I could get back to bright copper and soldered on new extensions. Fortunately you can still get the colour coded wire because the OEM copper wiring was very black inside the door, showing it's age and needed replacing.

Aside from my own situation I agree there's no reason why the relays shouldn't be inside the cabin.

Brian

[Grumblebuns]

Brian, looking at the wiring diagram, the window switches tap off upstream of the fuse block (yellow wire) and I don't see any fuses for wiring protection. I don't know why Lotus decided not to protect the window motor circuit with fuses when a stuck switch may cause problems. I just noticed that someone mentioned that the window motors have thermal switches. I guess I answered my own question.

[Bryan Boyle]

Once the door trim is off I'd say it's easier to mount the relays than adopting the Lotus Position in the footwell ? 

I guess I'm just used to assuming the {Lotus|Cessna|Piper} position,  that's all.  Agree that it's probably easier; just that metal access tube would get crowded with the addition of a more robust B+ and ground lead.    Just proves there are more ways to skin the cat...

But my main reason for in-door mounting was that I could use heavier gauge wire from the relays to the motor and beef up the earth return rather than the weedy Lotus loom.

So pretty much everything inside the door is new, I cut back the actuating wires from the switch inside the cabin where I could get back to bright copper and soldered on new extensions. Fortunately you can still get the colour coded wire because the OEM copper wiring was very black inside the door, showing it's age and needed replacing.

I have British Wiring on speed dial.    Maintaining color coding is always a good thing, especially down the road.  Nice thing about brit cars is that they standardized the color coding...so the wiring for windows, for instance, is the same (or should be) across marques.  Learn one, and the others fall into line.

Aside from my own situation I agree there's no reason why the relays shouldn't be inside the cabin.

Brian

Hey, if you get a bit tired in the Lotus position, you're in a ready position to catnap and your significant other will just think you're working on something and leave you alone!  Have to look on that as a plus...

[Sparkrite]

I got round to trying to sorting out the electric windows but before I did anything they magically decided to work. I then took the car out for a shakedown drive and the right hand indicator lights stopped working. The front and rear indicator lights would come on but not blinker. I took out both flasher units and bench tested them and they were fine.When I installed them back in, the ignition light failed to come on, so I gave up. I went to have a look again today and all of the above are now working perfectly.

[jbcollier]

Start at the back and go to the front and clean up all your grounds.  Make sure they are to bare metal, not over paint.

[Sparkrite]

I think your right, otherwise I will get caught out at an inconvenient time on a remote journey.