72-74 Lotus Europa Twin Cam Values

[MAK]

Since I am in the market for a 72,73,74 Twin Cam, and prices being all over the place, I did some research on what's available online. For BAT I pulled every sale from 5 years ago, including the 1 that just sold for $46.0, I DID NOT include the Daytona race car or any car that was listed as a "Project" because I have no interest in going that route, I did include cars that ended up as "Bid To". The BAT average is simply the total $ value of all cars sold divided by the total units sold.
I listed the source for each valuation.  Be curious on all of your thoughts. Thanks

Bring a Trailer             
Lotus Europa (1972 to 1974)                     
BAT sales without project cars for 1972 Lotus Europa - reflects Sales & Bid to                        
5 Year trend                        
Sales Count  10     Avg $15854     Lowest Sale $15500     Top Sale $35000     Most Recent $26000
YEARS 2021 to 2023            
Sales Count  3     Avg $20000    Lowest Sale $15500     Top Sale $26000     Most Recent $26000
            
BAT sales without project cars for 1973 Lotus Europa - reflects Sales & Bid to                        
5 Year trend                        
Sales Count  8     Avg $25058     Lowest Sale $13500     Top Sale $35973     Most Recent $24000
YEARS 2021 to 2023            
Sales Count  4     Avg $25873    Lowest Sale $23000     Top Sale $32500     Most Recent $24000
            
BAT sales without project cars for 1974 Lotus Europa - reflects Sales & Bid to                        
5 Year trend                        
Sales Count  12     Avg $23229     Lowest Sale $15000     Top Sale $46000     Most Recent $46000
YEARS 2021 to 2023            
Sales Count  4     Avg $34562     Lowest Sale $30000     Top Sale $46000     Most Recent $46000
            
Classic.com            
                     
Lotus Europa 1972 to 74            
Market trends for 1972 Lotus Europa - reflects sales in USD only.                        
5 Year trend                        
Sales Count  11     Avg $16241     Lowest Sale $5,500      Top Sale $26000     Most Recent $9000
1 Year trend                        
Sales Count  2     Avg $17500    Lowest Sale $9000     Top Sale $26000     Most Recent $9000
            
Market trends for 1973 Lotus Europa - reflects sales in USD only.                        
5 Year trend                        
Sales Count  14     Avg $22207     Lowest Sale $2950     Top Sale $47600     Most Recent $28000
1 Year trend                        
Sales Count  2     Avg $23383    Lowest Sale $18150     Top Sale $28000     Most Recent $28000
            
Market trends for 1974 Lotus Europa - reflects sales in USD only.                        
5 Year trend                        
Sales Count  10     Avg $32175     Lowest Sale $15000     Top Sale $46000     Most Recent $46000
1 Year trend                        
Sales Count  4     Avg $38223     Lowest Sale $31000     Top Sale $46000     Most Recent $46000
            
            
conceptcarz.com            
1972 Lotus Europa Valuation            
Average Sale Value $12,165            
Lowest Sale Value $4,300            
Highest Sale Value $29,360            
Data based on 4 auction sales.            
            
1973 Lotus Europa Valuation            
Average Sale Value $27,460            
Lowest Sale Value $18,056            
Highest Sale Value $47,600            
Data based on 7 auction sales            
            
1974 Lotus Europa Valuation            
Average Sale Value $27,460            
Lowest Sale Value $18,056            
Highest Sale Value $47,600            
Data based on 7 auction sales            
            
Collectorcarmarket.com            
1973 LOTUS EUROPA  4cyl 1558cc (113hp SAE) 4M   Fair           Good       Very Good        Excellent
                                                                            #4             #3               #2            #1
Twin-Cam Coupe                                                 11300    16900      24400           39000
            
            
            
HAGERTY            
1973 Lotus Europa Twin Cam            
2dr Coupe            
4-cyl. 1558cc/105hp 2x2bbl            
            
#1 Concours condition            
$45,200             
5.1% - Projected increase            
#2 Excellent condition            
$35,500             
10.2% - Projected increase            
#3 Good condition            
$19,000*            
8.0% - Projected Increase            
#4 Fair condition            
$12,000             
4.3% - Projected Increase            
            
J.D.POWER            
Pricing & Values            
1972 Lotus Europa Special 2 Door Coupe            
Original MSRP   $0         
Low Retail   $8,800         
Average Retail   $23,400         
High Retail    $43,500         
            
1973 Lotus Europa Special 2 Door Coupe            
Original MSRP   $0         
Low Retail   $10,300         
Average Retail   $27,000         
High Retail    $55,600         
            
1974 Lotus Europa Special 2 Door Coupe            
Original MSRP   $0         
Low Retail   $10,300         
Average Retail   $27,000         
High Retail    $55,600         
            

[jbcollier]

We did a lot of Austin Healeys.  There were basically two types of cars available: cars that needed $50K (probably now $80+K) of work, and those that just had  $50/80K of work.  Cars $25K and under were all just the same and needed the same work regardless of how they looked.

Equating that to Europas, I'll grant you three categories: cars that just had $50K of work, cars that need $50K of work, and drivers.  The problem is that a car can look like a driver but really just be needs-$50K work example.  A lot of cars in your sampling might be drivers.  Definitely some are in the needy catagory.

[Richard48Y]

Um, seems I should be glad I did not buy a TC! 
By the time I complete my S2/Hemi I will have around $12K-$14K into it.
Yep, I could probably buy a very nice example for that if I had that kind of cash on hand all at one time.
But if I bought someone else's work I would also expect to have to add to it unless they were a very well known meticulous shop.
Even new cars needed some work not all that long after the sale.
$50K for any Europa to be driven seems a bit over the top.

[jbcollier]

MAK is looking for a "nice" one and you are not counting your labour.

Here's an example, I just bought a "driver" 69 Lotus Seven.  It has been maintained by enthusiasts since new.  To get it truly road worthy for long trips, I will have spent roughly $8K in parts and outside labour (machine shop work).  And, spent roughly 80 hours of my own labour.  As a retired mechanic, my hours are well spent and commercial rates are $150 an hour round here.  That's $12K in labour.  So I will have invested the equivalent of $20K into a "good driver".  Body work and paint has not been touched (yet).

Don't get me wrong, I'm not complaining.  I'm delighted with the Seven --well, not quite, there were a few cuss-worthy surprise finds.  I'm just trying to show what these cars really cost.

So, let's say you're not a retired mechanic or auto-body tech.  Let's value your labour at 50% (or 25%), start counting hours, and it gets expensive in a hurry.  The point is we mis-value our cars (and our labour) if we leave out the enormous time bill when we calculate how much our cars cost us.

[TurboFource]

I guesstimate I have about 600 hours into TCST at this point....of course I have done a lot of this the hard way, by hand...and it will all be done by me

[GavinT]

So, let's say you're not a retired mechanic or auto-body tech.  Let's value your labour at 50% (or 25%), start counting hours, and it gets expensive in a hurry.  The point is we mis-value our cars (and our labour) if we leave out the enormous time bill when we calculate how much our cars cost us.

Yes, all true, I think.
But it's also valid if you're a dentist.
Another thing is that some folk spend similar amounts of money on photography or HiFi.

My favourite dentist joke:

A dentist and his assistant are hard at work when suddenly the client spit bowl clogs up. With patients backed up in the waiting room, the dentist whispers to the assistant to get the plumber in ASAP.

Fifteen minutes later, the plumber arrives and the dental assistant announces the short delay to the waiting patients. Another fifteen minutes goes by and the problem is fixed. The plumber hands the dentist the bill for $380.00.

Dentist: What's this? . . $380.00 for fifteen minutes work?
That's $1,520 per hour! . . . I don't make that sort of money and I'm a dentist!

Plumber: I didn't make that sort of money when I was a dentist either.


(With apologies to any forum dentists, I'll see myself out)

[BDA]

That's funny! I'm not and never was a dentist but if I were, I would still think that's funny!

In engineering school, one of my professors who was actually an engineer rather than an academician told us numerous stories about how valuable a certain skill could be - eg. A welder who was REALLY good wanted more money but the company wouldn't pay that so he went to another company and got a raise. Later the original company needed something welded but none of their welders could do it so, hat in hand, they asked the welder to help them. He wanted an outrageous hourly rate that they had to pay. Another guy who was an expert at some machine was laid off since another guy knew how to work the machine - but not when it malfunctioned. One day he couldn't get it to work so they had to call the guy they laid off. He charged a ridiculous rate to come look at it. He pushed one button and the machine started running again. It's not what you do, it's what you know how to do!

But back to the topic I've strayed away from: I've never even considered counting the time I've spent building, modifying, and maintaining my car. I couldn't put a value on the time I've spent on it. I couldn't afford some of it and some of it wasn't worth anything. It's a wonderful hobby I enjoy, I'm always learning something new, and it keeps me off the streets!

[racurley]

Yeah, I don't think this kind of thing, restoring old cool cars, is often done to get a good deal on a driver or to turn a profit.  I know this is going to cost me a crapload in parts and my labor.  I fortunately did not pay too much for it and I'm glad since the engine was seized and I'm still rebuilding the motor.  Never intended to do that but it is a fantastic learning experience.  I remodeled our master bath a few years ago because it needed it and I didn't want to spend the money on a contractor.  Took me six months, turned out great, I learned a ton and am proud of the result. And, my wife didn't kill me in the process.  Last year, I built two electric guitars from kits - kept one and gave a really cool gift to my son.  Aside from having truly unique instruments, I could have bought something just as good or better that was cheaper in the end.  Nah.  I originally bought the Lotus as a project to do with my youngest son.  We did tear it down together which was fantastic but then life got in the way and now he's moved across the country so it's just me working on it.  That's part of the reason it's now taking me so long to finish.  But, at least we still look at the work I'm doing on it and we talk about it.  Again, priceless.  Assuming I do finally finish the build, I haven't decided what I will do with it.  Kind of nice to see the prices they are bringing.  We'll see.

[MAK]

Thanks for the comments. BAT & Classic show the cars that are in the numbers, I believe most are overall good drivers, I am looking for a car that is mechanically ok when I purchase and be able to drive home. Will limit drive home to 500 miles. For some driving 500 miles is a big deal, but when one spends years either commuting 4 hours a day or driving 1100 miles a week driving 500 miles is like going around the corner.
Hopefully I can learn how to fix issues as I go along. I have easy access to a garage with lift, enough tools to open a hardware store and a vintage British car shop within 20 minutes.
 https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=A+Man+Has+to+Know+His+Limitations+GIF&&view=detail&mid=67B2B98E7D0378A5900267B2B98E7D0378A59002&&FORM=VRDGAR&ru=%2Fvideos%2Fsearch%3Fq%3DA%2BMan%2BHas%2Bto%2BKnow%2BHis%2BLimitations%2BGIF%26go%3DSearch%26qs%3Dds%26form%3DQBVDMH

I clearly know mine. Body work (fiberglass), spray painting both lacquer and gel coat, finish carpentry and furniture restoration no issue, mechanically I'm very limited, but not too old to learn.

[BDA]

The good thing is that these cars are really pretty simple and don’t require a lot of expensive tools.

[Pfreen]

This interesting to me.  I bought my Sunbeam Tiger as my Covid project and an attempt to be a "wheeler dealer".
I bought my Tiger for 35k and added 3k for taxes on the tag and transportation from South Miami to Orlando.
I picked a Tiger because parts are available and fairly cheap and concours Tiger 1A go for around $120k.

The car was sort of drivable when I got it but I have gone through everything since the car came with no history.  I am building a concours car because all the drivetrain and most parts are original.

So, I had the car stripped of old paint, fix some rust and paint the oroginal color.  I went through the transmission, rear end, engine, prop shaft, and  steering rack.  Nothing was particularly wrong.  I just changed bearings and seals.
A new carpet set, rechroming, upholstery, etc.

So, I have almost 40k in parts invested.  I have spent nearly 2-1/2 years on it averaging maybe 35 hours a week.  I have done all the work myself. 

So, I have almost 78 k invested in the car and 2-1/2 years (approximately 3900 hours)  of work. 

So if I sold the car for $120k, I would make 10.75/hour for my labor.

So, the Europa is a worse situation since the highest I have seen one sell for is like $55k, and restoration between the Tiger and the Europa is very similar. 

Conclusion!  This is a hobby and not a money making endeavor, at least if you are going to make your car nice.

[Dilkris]

Conclusion!  This is a hobby and not a money making endeavor.

I am on your team 100% - I have friends who spend £24,000 a year to play golf - so if at the end of your Europa Project you have returned just 10 cents/hr for the time "invested" - its a good deal no.... ? My golfing buddies...?  "zero"       

[MAK]

To be clear - I am not looking to buy a Europa to flip, have wanted 1 since I was a teenage, told my son it's his when I'm gone. "Gee thanks dad" 
I could sell my 3 Colnago bicycles for the price of a Europa.  Dreams are free everyone.

[GavinT]

. . told my son it's his when I'm gone. "Gee thanks dad" 

Yes, don't count on blood being thicker than water where taste in cars is concerned.

My son is (was) into Nissan Skyline turbos and drifting. He came to me one day asking advice because he found it difficult to get the rear to break away. I told him I'd spent most of my life trying to do the opposite.

A week later he came home with a shiny blue rear anti roll bar as thick as your arm so we crawled under his car and wrestled it into position.
That seemed to do it . . .

Speaking of money sunk into 'interests', he and I were seriously into 1/10th scale R/C car racing for a few years. Those things cost more to keep on the road than a Europa.