Author Topic: Continuation 47  (Read 778 times)

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Offline JR73

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Continuation 47
« on: Monday,January 23, 2023, 02:55:03 PM »

Offline SwiftDB4

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Re: Continuation 47
« Reply #1 on: Monday,January 23, 2023, 03:12:17 PM »
Details look really good. Even the FT200 with rear alternator drive.

Offline BDA

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Re: Continuation 47
« Reply #2 on: Monday,January 23, 2023, 04:01:55 PM »
Really nice!

Offline LotusEuropa

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Re: Continuation 47
« Reply #3 on: Tuesday,January 24, 2023, 12:12:33 AM »
Really nice!

I am not that much into the Lotus 47, but can someone explain the section underneath the seats?
For me It looks like the "lowered floor" option you can ad to modern Caterhams. If so, was this also original to the 47 back in the 60s?
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Offline Serge

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Re: Continuation 47
« Reply #4 on: Tuesday,January 24, 2023, 10:29:36 AM »
Really nice!

I am not that much into the Lotus 47, but can someone explain the section underneath the seats?
For me It looks like the "lowered floor" option you can ad to modern Caterhams. If so, was this also original to the 47 back in the 60s?

This is original, the S1s had have this aswell.

Offline LotusEuropa

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Re: Continuation 47
« Reply #5 on: Tuesday,January 24, 2023, 10:39:21 AM »
You're right, Serge. Thank you.
I just didn't notice it before.
'55 Lotus Mk VI
'58 Triumph TR3A
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Offline DreamsOfA47

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Re: Continuation 47
« Reply #6 on: Wednesday,January 25, 2023, 07:30:20 PM »
WOW!! That is an immaculate machine!! That's what I'm hoping to build! I'll definitely have to grab some pics to make sure I can get those details correct.

Offline GavinT

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Re: Continuation 47
« Reply #7 on: Wednesday,January 25, 2023, 08:21:09 PM »

This is original, the S1s had have this aswell.

That's because this car is also an S1.
Hate to be a Debbie downer and while the car looks and probably is fantastic, the gushing sales pitch looking to present it as a 47 doesn't sit well with me.

Offline jbcollier

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Re: Continuation 47
« Reply #8 on: Thursday,January 26, 2023, 10:07:04 AM »
The original 47s were reworked pre-production 46s.

Offline GavinT

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Re: Continuation 47
« Reply #9 on: Friday,January 27, 2023, 11:17:39 PM »
Yes, JB, probably . . . but the 47's all came out of Lotus Components, not the main factory.

Notably, the seller says: "The car has been allocated a ‘continuation’ chassis number of 201 . ."

My question is; who issued this chassis number and under what authority?
Obviously it didn't come from Lotus Components and I kinda doubt Lotus Cars would have. If they did, I'm pretty sure it would have been trumpeted from the tree tops.

Just wait . . 50 years down the track, we'll all be gone and some punter will find this car in a barn and claim it's the real thing. The Racecarsdirect ad will be on page number 4,987,426 of a Google search and his investment of $5Million will look like an astute move.

« Last Edit: Friday,January 27, 2023, 11:39:16 PM by GavinT »

Offline LotusEuropa

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Re: Continuation 47
« Reply #10 on: Saturday,January 28, 2023, 08:50:45 AM »
Good point, Gavin. I share the same opinion as you.

I find it particularly unfortunate when other cars are used for such projects.
Even though there are many conversions and optimizations on the cars here in the forum, I value originality the most, apart from safety-related optimizations.
'55 Lotus Mk VI
'58 Triumph TR3A
'67 Lotus Europa S1 460008
'67 Lotus Europa S1A 460320

Offline GavinT

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Re: Continuation 47
« Reply #11 on: Saturday,January 28, 2023, 02:13:59 PM »
46, point taken of course but I don't feel it's totally about originality per se even though that's rightfully valued as well. It's as much about honesty and fair dealing, too. With the advent of a brand new chassis number, perhaps even legality.

In my view, modifying a 46 into a 47 in meticulous detail is fine – you've created a replica, or a look-alike or whatever.
But when you then say "The car has been allocated a ‘continuation’ chassis number" with seemingly no provenance for that number, in my book you've crossed the line and have created a fake. There appears to be no plausible reason to change the ID that I can think of other than an attempt to deceive. Or at least, it remains without explanation. If there is a reasonable explanation, I'd be pleased to hear it and retract.


F'rinstance, a while ago (2 years?) there was a whirlwind that went through the Jaguar community which was all over FB. Here's how I remember the story but someone please correct me if I miss something.

The story started out about a guy who made himself a C-Type Jag. It was a replica, of course, but he's apparently something of a well known artisan and his work well respected. An acquaintance/friend/enthusiast  subsequently asked this chap to build one for him. They set a price and off he went. As the Jag community looked on and admired the progress reports, he started talking about another one or two more orders in the wings. Everyone thought . . how good is this!

While recognising there's oodles of Jag replicas out there and I don't know how the retailers handle things, but somewhere along the line, Jaguar got wind of this endeavour and took him to court. Apparently defending the case was going to bankrupt this guy so people were hurriedly setting up Go-fund-me accounts.
It turned out that bolting a Jaguar badge on the front and selling them for a profit infringed Jaguar IP and also deprived them of income. At least that was the crux of the litigation as I recall it.

It's perhaps no coincidence that soon after, Jaguar announced a limited number of ‘continuation’ cars which were to be numbered in sequence from those originally allocated but unfulfilled back in the 50's. That was the first time I'd heard of the term ‘continuation’.
I didn't follow the story so I don't know how it played out but some of those Jag replicas command serious money.

What is it they say about Mk1 Lotus Cortinas? . . out of the 3000 odd built, only 3844 survive today.

As I say, I'm fine with replicas or any modifications people want to do (though I might draw the line at that front engined conversion) . . but when there seems to be a clear attempt to mislead, well...


EDIT to add:

Here's a news article on the debacle.
It all happened in a Swedish court, but I dare not suggest that DIY Jags should be added to the list of no-go zones.

https://www.express.co.uk/life-style/cars/1402090/classic-car-collector-sued-jaguar-c-type-replica-exclusive


And here's an article by an IP lawyer who owns a replica Porsche 356 . . just for a different perspective.

https://www.jamesandwells.com/au/jlr-sparks-a-fire-of-condemnation-amongst-lovers-and-users-of-classic-car-design/
« Last Edit: Saturday,January 28, 2023, 02:28:06 PM by GavinT »

Offline Dan C 2624R

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Re: Continuation 47
« Reply #12 on: Saturday,January 28, 2023, 02:20:59 PM »
Along these same continuation lines, wasn't there something a couple years back regarding some "found" original chassis or nameplates to continue the Shelby Cobra?

Offline GavinT

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Re: Continuation 47
« Reply #13 on: Saturday,January 28, 2023, 02:48:02 PM »
Dunno about the Shelby Cobra but there's lots of 'activity' in the replica game generally.

Just recently on the Groups.io list there was a known modified S2 look-a-like listed as a 47 on an auction site. A number of members contacted the auction site alerting them to the fraudulent description. I think they finally changed the description or ditched the listing or something but not before some persistent action.

Offline jbcollier

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Re: Continuation 47
« Reply #14 on: Saturday,January 28, 2023, 03:17:37 PM »
Ok, that one (S2 build) was a bag of nails.