One last hard chore, frame head rust removal!

[Richard48Y]

About those plates.
Mine seem to be attached to the chassis but not fully.
Loose at one end and the dreaded gap between the reinforcement and the main chassis rail.
I want to remove them to clean that area and treat with rust stop.
Am I looking at a small weld or just rust holding them in place?

[Richard48Y]

OK, I determined that the engine mount reinforcement plates are supposed to be spot-welded in place.
Guess I will be drilling out spot welds for the loose plate then clean and reattach it.

A couple of "After" pics, I have done the bottom side frame repairs.
Not being the worlds greatest welder I will stand the frame on end and turn it over as needed for best results.

[Richard48Y]

After scratching around looking for an effective vs cost solution to rust removal it looks like I may try electrolysis.
Lots of commercial rust removing products available but getting into every nook and cranny calls for a liquid not jell solution.
Crud Cutter gets the best reviews but is also the most expensive.
Evaporust comes in second, but even at the best price would be over $100.00
Dilute Phosphoric acid might be good but I am unsure how much to dilute it and doubt I would want full strength.

Electrolysis should be very cheap.
Sodium Carbonate, water, a battery or battery charger, sacrificial anode (Scrap metal) and a non-conductive container large enough to submerge the frame head.
The container is the most difficult component.
I am hoping to find a large plastic tote, baby bath, etc.
I have some heavy plastic that I may be able to fold into a wood box if I must.
In theory if I had a large enough container I could do the entire chassis.
Pics once I get it sorted out.

[Richard48Y]

Another foray into the web brought up Penetrol.
Not sure what the consensus here might be compared to other products such as POR-15 metal prep or a rust converter?
The Penetrol is relatively cheap and apparently popular with owners of steel boats.
One you-tube video claimed that ex-Olympic steel structures treated with Penetrol still look new eight years later.
Supposed to be three times thinner than water so reaches everywhere, it can be painted over using oil based paints.

Then there is something called Tremclad.........

Yep, I'm probably overthinking all of this.

[Kendo]

I once did a big derusting op using a large plastic horse trough I got from a farm supply place. Pretty cheap and very strong

[gideon]

If dipping is an option then molasses is cheap and effective for rust removal.  It work by chelation.  The main downside is that it's slow.  There are plenty of descriptions on the web.

POR-15 is a moisure cured urethane.  It's a good choice when you can't clean all the rust off.  I used a similar paint (Eastwood Rust Encapsulator Platinum) on the inside of my frame because there was light surface rust coming through the grey primer. 

[Richard48Y]

I think molasses has to be done outside due to the smell.
Weather is going to be bad for the next several days.
Electrolysis also has to be done outside due to outgassing.
I am looking for a process that may be done quickly so I do not have to wait several weeks for an opportunity.

[Richard48Y]

Today I was gifted five gallons of Evaporust. 
Buddy bought it to use on his T-Bucket but wound up going with powder painting so never opened it.
I hope to set up a small plastic fountain pump to circulate it over the area I need to remove rust from.
If it is not satisfactory I will go back the electrolysis effort.

[GavinT]

I'm a fan of Penetrol and it's been around a long time. I went with it because it's supposed to improve penetration when added to the alkyd-based paint I used for the chassis. It also makes the rather expensive paint go further and largely eliminates brush marks.

I've not use it straight out of the can very much as per the advertised rust 'stabilizer' – I used fish oil which probably works similarly.
A mate of mine does what he calls "Penetrol rebuilds"  . . . by which he means that after he bead blasts carb bodies, he gives them a coat of Penetrol. It kinda clogs up the pores of the casting so they don't attract crud and is essentially invisible otherwise.


IMHO, you're on the right track with Evaporust.
From what I gather, it'll actually dissolve the rust. Not sure how to get the sludge out from between the closely fitting steel sheets at the ends of the T section but perhaps it doesn't matter much if the Penetrol gets in.

[Richard48Y]

Evaporust, pressure wash, Evaporust, pressure wash again.
Then Penetrol or the 3M Cavity Wax Plus product I bought today.
At some point I will have to accept what I end up with.

[jbcollier]

A final heat cycle to get out as much of the moisture as possible would be a good idea as well.

[Richard48Y]

I have a torpedo type heater, that should drive out any moisture.

[Richard48Y]

Inquiry sent to Spydercars asking about a replacement frame head.
Seems to be a the most commonly required piece for frame repair, "Group Buy" candidate?
Hoping to hear from them next week.

[Richard48Y]

Couple of notes and questions on Spydercars.
I notice they use soda-blast for their restorations.
I wonder what they immediately follow it with, new spray-on gel coat is mentioned.
I also see they offer two chassis, one as original and the other the space-frame.
Original is £500 less expensive.
I wonder which is lighter?

Tried rust removal with a brush.
That seems to really only work where we have access for mechanical assistance.
So it looks like I will be building bucket for dunking.

[BDA]

The one you are calling original is an improved frame from the original. I have one from the late ‘70s. The improvements mostly allow better access to places, especially the area around the steering u-joint which is very nice. I don’t know the relative weights but I wouldn’t expect there is much difference.

The tube frame allows their rear wishbone suspension. I don’t know if the newer non-tube frame does, I suspect not. The tube frame is modular where it picks up the rear of the tranny so it supports several different ones such as the NG3.

If you’re interested in an improved rear suspension, you don’t need the tube frame, you can have the Bank’s twin link with any non-tube frame. I don’t have any idea if one is better than the other. I know the Banks mimics the original geometry.

Back when I got my frame, I got it from Dave Bean. It would be worth a call to see if they have any.

In design, the Banks (Lotus Supplies) frame is very similar extra to the non-tube Spyder frame in that it gives better access to certain areas.