Need help troubleshooting popping/clicking noises around driver rear wheel.

[69merc]

Ok, here goes.  I’ve made some videos to help the Europa collective understand the noise I hear.

https://youtu.be/51npTNzyCLM

https://youtu.be/pZVSDjeDgw8

https://youtu.be/0vueZ_swsFI

The troubleshooting I’ve done already includes:
1. Replaced heim joints on lower links….old ones had a lot of play. ( this didn’t make the popping noise go away, but needed to be done anyway).
2. Removed shock/coil spring assembly and replaced with a piece of wood.  ( this didn’t make the popping noise go away).
3. Removed brake drum and reinstalled wheel and retested.  ( this didn’t make the popping noise go away).
4. Verified the wheel/wheel weights aren’t contacting anything during rotation.

When I got this car, the driver side rear hub had been taken apart.  I rebuilt it with new bearings.  Currently I have put around 100 miles on them. 

The videos show no noises unless the car is weighted and rolling….and more/louder popping rolling in reverse.

I have ideas, but thought I would ask for troubleshooting advice.

Thanks,
Jim

[jbcollier]

Yowsa!

Is there absolutely any play if have it jacked up and wiggle the rear wheel hard.

[69merc]

There was, but it was in the lower link heim joints.  Those have been replaced and the excessive play is gone.  I’ve also checked the rear toe and it is 1/16” toe in and parallel to the front.

[jbcollier]

It's not an adjustment issue.  That's for sure.  Can you roll it back and forth and use a stethoscope to hear where it's coming from?  It will tough as the noise will telegraph but it might help.

Another suggestion would be lift one side at a time and roll it back and forth on the jack to isolate which side it is.

My initial thought was u-joints but it is quiet in the other two videos, though the joints aren't loaded.  U-joints also do not articulate hardly at all when just rolling back and forth.  That leaves wheel bearings or loose hub/wheel nuts.

[69merc]

Good idea about using a Jack to isolate which side.  It is definitely an issue with being “loaded” and “unloaded”  My fear is bearings, but they are only 100 miles old
It just seems like a lot of noise from a bearing that makes no noise unloaded 

The hub/hub nut is tight ( I put a paint mark on it when I installed it and it hasn’t moved) and the wheel is torqued to spec.

I guess it could be a u joint, but I thought it would make noise when rotating with the car on blocked on its suspension?

[jbcollier]

Just because the hub nut hasn't moved does not mean it is tight.  Very very seldom does the hub nut actually loosen; as in, unthread itself.  Things might not have been properly seated at assembly and now they are.  Or, the long spacer may have collapsed which is common with reused stock spacers.

The u-joints are under compression when the suspension is loaded so it is entirely possible they could be quiet unloaded and snap, crackle and pop when loaded.

[69merc]

Good points.  Do you have a suspicion it is either a u joint or hub bearings?

I will keep investigating.

[TurboFource]

I thought u-joint after watching first video…..

[EuropaTC]

I thought u-joint after watching first video…..

Hmm, so did I although years ago I did have a single ball break up in a front wheel bearing on an old mini, and that made an odd thumping sounds but with no discernible play at the hub and I couldn't find it from jacking the car & rotating the wheel. In the end it was just ripping it apart and checking, then the rogue bearing came up.

The noise is odd in that it doesn't seem to be "uniform" and coming at the same position on the driveshaft or wheel rotation. Given all the rollers in a UJ, that makes me think the issue is there in one or more UJ cups. But that's just a wild guess.

I can't think of a way of loading either just the wheel bearing or driveshaft without the other component, which is what's needed. In that situation I'd just give up and strip it down again ?

[GavinT]

Interesting first video.
Notice, particularly during the reverse direction, that the spring/damper unit jerks up/down in time to the noise.
I can't convince myself the UJ could do that so my thinking is that a wheel bearing may have collapsed somehow . . or something else stub axle / hub / spacer / bearing related.

Process of elimination:
Fashion a wooden strut incorporating a forked end to capture the trailing arm vertically just in front of the upright.
Cut a slot in the other end to capture a rib on the gearbox end.
Rope & zip tie the strut around both ends to be sure it stays put.
Detach the half-shaft yoke at the gearbox and temporarily tie it loosely to the wooden strut.

That should permit testing of a loaded wheel in the absence of loaded UJ's.
Wouldn't that work?

[jbcollier]

Probably.  But , if you are that far in, just moving the u-joint by hand should show up any issues.

[kram350kram]

Noticed the wheels are both turning in the same direction. Is this normal for this transaxle, maybe you have a locker or traction lock issue? Also, maybe the stub axle is hitting the spring on the shock? Just a thought.

[Lotuswins]

Going back to what has changed since you got the car, rear bearing hub rebuilt?  What spacer did you use? what bearings? Have you ever done one of these??  Was there play in the bearing OD fitment in the carrier?  did the bearings have a light press on the axle?  Did the spacer ID fit loosely on the axle?? ( new ones can have too much play making them susceptible to cocking), was the length correct?  How did you install the splined wheel hub?  Per the manual?  Use loctite? What was the process?  Loctite the nut?

I fear you may have binding bearings from the sound.  Use the stethoscope as suggested, to determine the location, but I fear its serious and you shouldn't drive the car until its resolved.  Those carriers are expensive.

Jerry Rude
4005R

[europa88]

A Europa owning friend and I were just discussing this and thought it could be the driveshaft just touching the hub retaining bolts that attach through the radius arm. Sometimes just turning the bolt head can eliminate this.
However listening to first video clip again It does sound like a bearing bind to me.

[69merc]

Thanks for all the advice.  Before I tore everything apart, I thought I would take the hub nut, hub, and spacer off just to have a look see.  Everything thing looked ok.  I also hammered on the ujoint ( like you would after pressing in a u joint).  Put it all back together and it is quiet as a mouse! 

https://youtu.be/qXwglXg_WEM

My thought is that I never relieved the pressed tension on the u joint.