Another 46 to 47 project!

[DreamsOfA47]

In my looking over the car I've found another issue. It seems that the front upper edge of the passenger door has split. Knowing how much of a nightmare getting the doors off these cars is I'm hopeful I can just pack the split with resin and clamp it with some small clamps. have any of y'all had to affect this repair on your cars?

[Kendo]

I had a split like that at a different place on one of my doors. Cleaned up the mating surfaces with sandpaper, and like you suggested, glue and clamp it. I used polyester resin. But you might want to use epoxy if in doubt.

[DreamsOfA47]

I had a split like that at a different place on one of my doors. Cleaned up the mating surfaces with sandpaper, and like you suggested, glue and clamp it. I used polyester resin. But you might want to use epoxy if in doubt.

Wonderful! Thanks for the insight. I don't mind the idea of epoxy resin just to be sure whatever bonds does so as strongly as possible. It won't be easy prepping or clamping the surfaces but the crack opens and flexes noticeably when the door is open-end or moved so I'd like to affect some kind of effective repair sooner rather than later. 

[Clifton]

Polyester does not have as good of a mechanical bond as epoxy. Polyester will not cure on top of epoxy. Just saying, don't get silly with epoxy then try to do polyester repairs over. You would have a decent chance with poly if it was roughed up. They sell cheap very narrow diamond 1/8 shank rotatory bits. I would clean it up before filling with anything then rinse out with acetone or denatured.

As for the doors coming off. Based on your desired outcome for the car, I would plan on Banks hinges. I have a video somewhere on Youtube putting a door back on with Banks hinges. Very easy.

[Sandyman]

 :I-agree:You won't regret changing the hinges. I went the RDENT stainless route. They work okay. Colin's engineers must have been having a bad day when door hinges were on the table. Very hard to do solo.

[DreamsOfA47]

Polyester does not have as good of a mechanical bond as epoxy. Polyester will not cure on top of epoxy. Just saying, don't get silly with epoxy then try to do polyester repairs over. You would have a decent chance with poly if it was roughed up. They sell cheap very narrow diamond 1/8 shank rotatory bits. I would clean it up before filling with anything then rinse out with acetone or denatured.

As for the doors coming off. Based on your desired outcome for the car, I would plan on Banks hinges. I have a video somewhere on Youtube putting a door back on with Banks hinges. Very easy.

I'll ask my old shop what they think as their bread and butter is restoring old Corvettes. If it's working fiberglass they've prolly done it and have some opinion. I guess the most important question is what did Lotus use at the factory when building the body? Is the body held together with fiberglass or epoxy resin?

I understand the need to change hinges before mine become problematic, but removing the doors really wasn't part of the short term agenda!  :'( My biggest concern for repairing the damage in situ is the ability to clamp the area sufficiently to allow it to bond and cure. I'm not sure what I'll have access to that can get in-between the door and the door jam and clamp that section, but the door almost clamps itself when closed... I know as far as my problems go this one is small potatoes but I still want to get it fixed ASAP before it cracks more as the door is used!

Is there a concensus on which style go hinge is better; the banks brass vs the stock style stainless steel?

[lotusfanatic]

Hello JB,

could you explain the third technique ('separate the two chassis halves (bottom and top) which was how they put it together at the factory') as I'm not familiar with that process?

Regards,
Mark

My 46 was literally scrap so I had no qualms about doing my own thing.  However, I knew that by going that way I was going to spend more money, and end up with a car worth less, than a stock build.  Just something to keep in mind.  If you are interested in having your cake and eating it as well, either a stock restoration or a 47 conversion would be the way to go.  Either would give you a fun car to drive and reasonable resale value.  No, you won’t recover your costs unless you count all your labour as donated.

If you go the 47 route, please do not fit a Mazda rotary.  They generate enormous amounts of heat, a problem in a Europa, and, frankly, nothing says slap-dash more than a Mazda rotary conversion.  I’m sure there are many good ones out there but they have a reputation in the business.

Finally, you have corrosion in your chassis, very normal in a 46.  You are going to have to remove the chassis in order to deal with it properly.  There are three ways to go: cut it out the bottom, cut out the firewall and console and take it out the back, or separate the two chassis halves (bottom and top) which was how they put it together at the factory.  It will be a lot of work and you would have to do it again if you subsequently decide to convert it to a 47.  I would decide on that and only change the chassis once.

Anyway, nice car, good project, and all the best.  I absolutely adore my 46.

[jbcollier]

At the factory, the body was made in two pieces with a floor pan and upper.  The chassis with harness and brake piping was sandwiched between the two.  The upper and floor sections were bonded together.  The chassis itself was not bonded to the body sections except the rear loop.  The bonded together body was extensively riveted to the chassis.

I have not separated the upper and lower sections myself.  I took mine out the back: makes quite the mess but my chassis had been hamfistedly repaired and the surrounding body hacked up already so no loss there.  Randall Fehr restored an S1 and did separate the body.  If the body is in good condition, this allows for a much cleaner chassis change and fewer body repairs required afterwards.

[SwiftDB4]

If you get to a body off it's worth fiberglassing the S1 tunnel to make the body like an S2 for future body removals. I did that but kept the bellypan below the engine.
My wheels are 7 x 13" American Racing Vector. Sadly they haven't been available in 13" for many years now.

[Clifton]

I guess the most important question is what did Lotus use at the factory when building the body? Is the body held together with fiberglass or epoxy resin?


Is there a concensus on which style go hinge is better; the banks brass vs the stock style stainless steel?

100%, Lotus used polyester resin(fiberglass) If you use polyester to attach, laminate, etc on old fiberglass, it will need to be roughed up good.

Here's my door video. Re installing a pre adjusted doors is only this easy with Banks hinges. I had my doors set perfect, removed, painted the car and put them back on just as fast as in the video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xVGllr0Efbg

[DreamsOfA47]

JB and Fanatic I think these undated pics of 47GT-09 from the Fantasy Junction link show how the body was separate for roll cage installation and may illustrate the method. It seems awfully labour intensive but it makes sense for work such as fabricating a roll cage or swapping out a frame. I'm still a big fan of the idea of dropping the frame out of the bottom and modifying the body to make it separable like an S2, but when when the time comes for a proper build this method is looking much more promising to me now!

Swift I love your wheels! Honestly for street driving and the like I'd love a set of 15"s for slightly better tire selection and it seems American Racing sells those wheels without bolt holes if desired. I may have to get a set and take them to a machine shop way down the road. For racing one day I'd like the proper 13x10s but that's a whole other situation.

Clifton thats important news! I'll talk to my guys and see what they have to say about it but if the car is polyester I'd like to repair it that way as well. Banks hinges does seem like the upgrade that's needed, but I wasn't planning on that work or money yet!  :'( I may just tray and remove, fix and reinstall the passenger door soon and work on the driver's door at a later date

[lotusfanatic]

Hello JB,

I would imagine that splitting the body is a difficult task but it would be very good for aligning everything after installing the repaired chassis.

Mark

At the factory, the body was made in two pieces with a floor pan and upper.  The chassis with harness and brake piping was sandwiched between the two.  The upper and floor sections were bonded together.  The chassis itself was not bonded to the body sections except the rear loop.  The bonded together body was extensively riveted to the chassis.

I have not separated the upper and lower sections myself.  I took mine out the back: makes quite the mess but my chassis had been hamfistedly repaired and the surrounding body hacked up already so no loss there.  Randall Fehr restored an S1 and did separate the body.  If the body is in good condition, this allows for a much cleaner chassis change and fewer body repairs required afterwards.

[yellow16TS]

Very cool project. Good luck with it. I am restoring my type 54 and adding a few 47 styling cues.

That dark blue 47 is amazing! I will use that photo for inspiration

[DreamsOfA47]

Hello all! I come with a new update on the project. When I was discussing the state of the Europa with Joji he mentioned to me that he had driven the car once and that on the drive the wiring behind the dash began smoking. I finally got around to examining what the potential problems may be, and discovered this mess of crispy spaghetti! I'm now planning on replacing the wiring harness completely as I'm not sure the original one is repairable. I'd like an OEM replica harness, but something like a Painless brand harness is also promising, though the need to terminate and then wrap an aftermarket harness makes a complete OEM harness much more appealing.

Do any of y'all have any advice for me on the wiring side of things? Does anyone have an S1 or Renault powered Europa wiring harness that I may purchase?

[DreamsOfA47]

More crispy spaghetti