For those who have actually put real mileage on your cars...

[BDA]

I was checking out my rear suspension yesterday and was alarmed at the amount of play in my driver's side hub. Clearly, at the least the bearings are completely shot. The other side is fine. I don't know the actual mileage but I don't see how it could be more than 20,000 miles since I first put it on the road.

I thought that was pretty light mileage for rear bearings on a TCS. I also have a twin link rear suspension so I figured that would likely enhance the life of those bearings. I mentioned this to EuropaTC and he said he expects them to last about 20,000 miles max so he changes them every two years (at 8-9K/yr driving rate).

Several years ago I posted this story about a guy who had at that time put 250,000 miles on his S1 (http://www.lotuseuropa.org/LotusForum/index.php?topic=1386.msg12251#msg12251). It's a funny story and worth reading if you need a chuckle, and who doesn't now a days? Anyway, one theme throughout the story is his constantly changing rear bearings. I had read that the TCs had fixed that problem. Well, rereading the story, I was reminded that he was only getting 10,000 miles on his bearings so if I got 20,000 miles, I was actually getting double the life of S1 bearings!

So my question to you who have put mileage on your car is how long do your rear bearings last, which model do you have, do you have anything on your car that might affect the life of your bearings like a twin link, etc., and are you aware of any tips that could prolong the life of those bearings?

[Lou Drozdowski]

BDA...

I'd say 15k-25k would be the replacement range for a stock TCS...

Both cars, Vic's 3522 & my 3307R were replaced during their restorations. The logic behind changing the bearings was out of normal caution, not knowing the true mileage especially on Vic's lack of prior service documentation.

Yes, it is a weak spot on the Europa...and, there are things to consider.
The quality of the bearings...SKF & Timken are reliable and well made...always use the hardened spacers, and examine the innards of the carriers for wear or defects.

Finally, if done right...assembly...don't take any shortcuts. Use fresh hard wear, after installation and run in, re torque and go easy with the lock-tight...for the next time you have to take it apart.

 


 

[EuropaTC]

I thought that was pretty light mileage for rear bearings on a TCS. I also have a twin link rear suspension so I figured that would likely enhance the life of those bearings. I mentioned this to EuropaTC and he said he expects them to last about 20,000 miles max so he changes them every two years (at 8-9K/yr driving rate).

Just to add a bit more for the forum, the 8-9,000 miles was in the days when I used my Europa daily. These days I do nothing like that annual mileage and what I do drive is generally in good weather. Back then I'd drive it through winter and we had lots of ice, snow and regularly salted roads in Yorkshire from November-February.

The original (& first) owner of my car changed them at 20k and that would be a new car out of the factory.  Incidentally the worst lifetime I had was just under 5k which I only found by chance when doing something else. With hindsight I suspected either installer error (me) or maybe I just had picked up some poor quality bearings, but one side didn't even make the first year.

I think Tim Engel wrote about rear bearings on the old Yahoo group but can't find it just now. I seem to recall he had a regular change interval as well.

Brian

[SwiftDB4]

When I bought an S2 new at the factory 1970 I got at least 20,000 miles on it before selling it in 1974. I think one factor most of us discount is hub carrier wear. That one factor allows the entire assembly to accelerate bearing and stub axle wear. How many of us have either bought new hub carriers or sleeved them? The other weakness is the stub axle itself. I've gone thru more axles due to journal wear at the outer bearing than the bearings themselves. Upgraded stub axles like PA Motorsports sell would probably eliminate this problem.

[jbcollier]

Funny you should ask.  I’m redoing my rear hubs yet again.  Experiment and learn.

The stock system lasted 5K or so but that was with used parts and new bearings.  I then sleeved a set of carriers and fit a custom system from an old open wheel racer.  Lots of extra work and cash to get it working.  It’s Achilles heel?  No room for an inner seal.  I drive in all weathers and it took about 10k for it to wash out the inner bearing and develop play.  I should have known this would be an issue as the factory didn’t use inner seals either at first.

Then, the custom machining was off and the press fit too tight and I broke one of the sleeved uprights.  I had to take off the whole radius arm.  It then proceeded to break a 12 ton press!  Finally got it apart though.

Now I have new uprights, bearings, inner seals and yet another axle set up.  We’ll see how it works.  I’ll report on it (with pictures) when I install it all.

Recommend that you repack the new bearings with good quality wheel bearing grease before install.

[jbcollier]

PS: I haven’t been in a bar or chased a wild woman in a very, very long time.  Holy?  No.  Just own a Europa!

[Bainford]

I just did an axel overhaul last summer. My Special has 53,000 miles on it, 23,000 of which I put on. At the time I had no idea if when, or if, my axels were last done. I saw that they had been done in the past, but no idea when. All I know for sure is I had put 23,000 on it, and when I disassembled I was surprised to find the bearings in very good condition.

[Bryan Boyle]

I know this whole thing is in my future...and I'm NOT looking forward to doing it.  Right now, you can hear the bearings at speed...a low moaning from the rear.  Jacked up the back, and tried wiggling the wheels..but nothing out of sorts. Car has over 54K on the clock (if that's even right...), and there is nothing in the 2" thick binder of repair invoices to even suggest that it's been done before. 

Might as well do the fronts at the same time, right? 

First thing, though, is get to the oil leaks.  While the engine is out...can work on the suspension and bearings when I need a break from the engine or clutch issues. 

[BDA]

Thanks, everyone, for your input. My takeaway is that unless you're going to make substantial changes to the design (or materials), the only thing to do is use quality parts and assemble carefully and live with it. I don't think I have to worry about hardened spacers, first because my twin link eliminates the lateral loads on the bearings and second because I got mine from Richard and though I didn't ask him if they were hardened, I have no doubt that they are. As for greasing the bearings, the bearings I put in the upright were completely sealed so I don't have to worry about that either. That being said, I'll inspect everything as best I can anyway.

Speaking about design changes, I really like the idea of using VW stub axles, CV joints, and half shafts. Our own Jmarkusic did a write up about his and previous member, Andy Harwood's, conversion here (http://www.lotuseuropa.org/LotusForum/index.php?topic=4782.0). Then there are a couple of alternatives for the stock stub axle - Swift mentioned one and I know JB used another one. That would solve the weakness of the Hilman Imp stub axles but doesn't do much for the bearing issue. With all the great upgrades Ricard (at Banks) has done, I'm a bit surprised that he or somebody similarly cleaver hasn't addressed that. Changing the rear bearings every 20,000 miles (or longer if you Bainford (!)) is not my idea of fun! A redesigned upright with beefier bearings would be welcome in my view. All that is nice but for me it's academic since something like that is not in the budget right now (but then changing the bearings wasn't anticipated either!).

I don't remember our making much about rear bearings in the past (but then the mind dulls with age) so I think it should be a lesson to everybody to check them frequently. To Bryan's point about front bearings, does anybody have any suggestions about them? They come off the Spitfire. I never new of any longevity issues with them on Spitfires or Europas either but then I hadn't heard about the rear bearing issues.

I went to look at the Jensen racing manual and issues with the rear bearings were not mentioned but then they would put very few miles on them and as hard as those miles were, it apparently was never an issue with them.

[SwiftDB4]

An upgraded hub carrier with bigger bearings would be a definite plus. The Jensen Racing Europa did change stub axles every 2 races and probably bearings too. Typically SCCA Nationals meant about 150 miles each race weekend. Running 11" wide racing slicks they must have known the weaknesses of the entire assembly.

[BDA]

Good point, Swift. If they change stub axles, they probably would change bearings while they were at it. Since they didn't mention it, I had assumed that they didn't.

[jbcollier]

Not only Spitfires, TR6s use the same front wheel bearings as well.  You could hardly call them over-specified, but they seem to work just fine.

Richard would have supplied hardened spacers.  The originals were seam-welded, thin-wall pipe; pretty much just exhaust pipe.  The workshop manual says new ones are to be fitted every time the hubs are apart.  Any time a hub nut “loosens”, it’s the spacers collapsing.  Bin the originals and fit hardened ones.

[jbcollier]

The axles themselves are not very strong.  Worse is the fact that the hub is spaced further out to suit the rear brakes.  That means the outer bearing partially sits on the splines for the hub.  This is why they changed the workshop manual to include using special lo title, to try and prevent any movement and fretting of the axle splines.

[BDA]

Just another reminder, if one was needed, how Lotus made this car on the cheap. (excuse my cynicism, I'm having a hard time getting my hub off the half shaft even with heat!).

[SwiftDB4]

Considering there are probably more Europas than Hillman Imps still running now why aren't new stub axles machined with shorter splines so that the outer bearing has full journal support?
Also TC axles wouldn't fit an Imp anyway so why not a full journal?