Author Topic: 3 row aluminum radiator for $69!!  (Read 2436 times)

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Offline RonPNW

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Re: 3 row aluminum radiator for $69!!
« Reply #15 on: Tuesday,June 28, 2022, 12:34:28 PM »
This Chinese radiator looks like a great upgrade from the original but is still roughly at the same level of cooling.

I recently saw a post for a Jeep xj swap.    https://grassrootsmotorsports.com/forum/aerodynamics-presented-nine-lives-racing/mid-engine-radiator-mounting-and-ducting/193435/page1/

Has anyone tried this? It looks like a straight forward upgrade, adds some cooling and keeps the original look at roughly the same weight..
I have always had OK but marginal cooling. With an upgrade to an 807 engine I'm leaning towards this jeep radiator. It will require some ducting (which would strengthen the front) and a couple of additional front end vents for cabin cooling. The exhaust would be through both wheel arches, you could even add a little exhaust ducting to incorporate a modern air curtain for the front wheels.

Ron
Second restoration of a 1970 S2, now with a Spyder chassis, 807-13 crossflow engine and some modern upgrades. This car is just for fun!

Offline BDA

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Re: 3 row aluminum radiator for $69!!
« Reply #16 on: Tuesday,June 28, 2022, 01:40:59 PM »
I have one of those Chinese aluminum radiators (from comments, it seems they come in a couple of different flavors and I don't know which flavor I have. It is about the size of the original radiator. I have no cooling problems with my car, even in the summer in mild traffic. Deep downtown stop and wait traffic might be different. As long as I'm moving on the highway, no fan is needed. If that sounds like the kind of driving you do, I suspect that an aluminum radiator is all you need. My fan is a pusher. If I had mounted it as a puller, it would be a bit more efficient. Also, I run distilled water with Red Line Waterwetter and no antifreeze.

I might mention that when I was building my car, I took my radiator to a shop to be inspected and cleaned if needed. He looked at it and said he could build a better radiator that was thinner, which he did. It was at least 1/2" thinner and made of brass and I never had any trouble with it. I sold it to somebody when the aluminum radiators became more common.

If you want better cooling, I think there is a Scirocco radiator that is generally mounted at an angle in front of the front trunk and exhausted through a modified bonnet lid. I'm not sure that that would be much more difficult to install. It might be easier.

Dave Anderson documented what he did on his car, including his radiator here (https://www.prevanders.net/europa/radiator.html). Unfortunately, he doesn't really specify what radiator he ended up with. He mentions the AFCO AFC-80107N but the pictures of those have the hose ports at right angles to the radiator.

Offline jbcollier

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Re: 3 row aluminum radiator for $69!!
« Reply #17 on: Tuesday,June 28, 2022, 04:06:57 PM »
I'll be posting about this in more detail later but the single most important change you can make is to fit a proper rad fan with large blades that flows large volumes of air.  I have tried different rads, thermostats, electric water pumps, etc and the only thing that made any difference was putting on a kick-ass fan.  The difference was dramatic, dropping my hot-day, ac-on, engine temps by 15°C even though I didn't have the coldest thermostat fitted.

All this assumes your cooling system is in good shape (no missing rad baffle, etc) and you are running an appropriate water/antifreeze mix.

To be frank, very few aftermarket fans in the 10" and 11" size put out enough air.  All the thin, multi-blade units that are commonly available are useless.  It needs large, deep blades and a high speed (high amp) motor.  There are two or three available from SPAL but they are hard to find in today's messed up shipping situation.  I read on the GGLC site that some people had fit rad fans from 70s Mercedes and very very happy with the results so I tracked one down and tried it.  The part numbers to cross are: Bosch JPK12V0130701006 or Mercedes 000 500 4093.  You'll have to fab your own mounts but it wasn't hard to do.  It did what all the prior rads, electric pumps, etc didn't, it kept things cool.
« Last Edit: Tuesday,June 28, 2022, 04:09:15 PM by jbcollier »

Offline TurboFource

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Re: 3 row aluminum radiator for $69!!
« Reply #18 on: Wednesday,July 06, 2022, 01:51:26 PM »
So has anyone actually ran their car with one of these?

I want to put an aluminum radiator in TCST but most Cheena made stuff is junk and I told
myself I would not try to use any parts from there.....but the price is hard to ignore if they actually cool well...
The more I do the more I find I need to do....remember your ABC’s …anything but chinesium!

Offline BDA

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Re: 3 row aluminum radiator for $69!!
« Reply #19 on: Wednesday,July 06, 2022, 02:01:48 PM »
I understand your reticence about Chinese stuff but see my comment above. I have one and it works fine and looks great. The only complaint I had is that the mount for the fan almost fit the fan I bought but one of the studs was off by about 1/4" so I had to get that fixed. It fit perfectly in my car.

As I said, I don't know how many rows mine has but I think 3 is the max and the one I linked has three. You might compare other dimensions with other aluminum radiators.

Offline 4129R

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Re: 3 row aluminum radiator for $69!!
« Reply #20 on: Thursday,July 07, 2022, 12:21:08 AM »
I have had no problems with overheating yet.

Fitting the rad, you have to drill new holes, and the two studs that stick out of the bottom are too long.

Once you find an otter switch which fits, then they are very good value. 

Offline TurboFource

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Re: 3 row aluminum radiator for $69!!
« Reply #21 on: Thursday,July 14, 2022, 12:32:48 PM »
I asked for a quote from Ron Davis Racing.... $1235.00 4-1/2 week delivery.....

Looks like made in cheena will work for now!
The more I do the more I find I need to do....remember your ABC’s …anything but chinesium!

Offline GavinT

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Re: 3 row aluminum radiator for $69!!
« Reply #22 on: Thursday,July 14, 2022, 07:51:06 PM »
You're a bit of a gun welder, Turbo.
For that sort of money, it might be worth contacting a radiator core supplier and fabricate your own.

Offline TurboFource

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Re: 3 row aluminum radiator for $69!!
« Reply #23 on: Thursday,July 21, 2022, 02:28:37 PM »
Ordered a $132 ebay radiator today....thought the core looked better that the $69 ones....we will see....
The more I do the more I find I need to do....remember your ABC’s …anything but chinesium!

Offline Vegantune

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Re: 3 row aluminum radiator for $69!!
« Reply #24 on: Thursday,July 21, 2022, 04:20:02 PM »
I'd say you made the right choice. I finally got the real specs of the $69 one, and it isn't good. They are priced cheap for more than one reason. A well-made Europa three row aluminum radiator will have at least a 3-1/2" or thicker shell with a 3" thick core (same as original), which also gives room for their wider flow tubes.

Turns out my previously posted guesses for the for $69 version dimensions, identified by fan strap mount design and just 3" overall thickness (not the 3.5" they claim), were very close. Actual core is less than 2" thick, recessed into the shell by 5/8" on both sides. Compare that to just 1/4" recess or less on a good 3 1/2" aluminum three-rows on eBay. That also means this $69 one will have smaller flow tubes of 1/2" OD each or less to space three within a 2" core, each with a smaller ID, so less thermal transfer area.

Now factor in established 40% reduced thermal transfer of efficiency of aluminum compared to copper in the original. The Europa original copper cores I checked on two units were very close to 3" (outer shell were 3 1/2"). Comparing overall thermal transfer efficiency, the $69 units are well below half the performance of original copper radiator: 67% of core width times 60% of thermal transfer efficiency = 40%, or a 1.2" copper equivalent performance.

You are unfortunately going to take a hit with aluminum's lesser thermal transfer, so make sure the core is as thick as original. Then add a Spal pusher fan, not some poor performing China pancake, and make sure the fan is perimeter sealed so it all goes into the radiator, not just spill across the face of the radiator and recirculate inside the nose of the car to  simply preheat incoming air.

We've already set new record highs this year in Fargo, Dallas, Springfield, Phoenix, OK City, New York, London, Paris, and more. Depending on where you live, which better be well above the 49th parallel, I'd not want one of the $69 ones into a car with a history of marginal cooling or worse in elevated ambient temps.
- A Norwegian Blue with beautiful plumage is still nothing but a dead parrot.

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Offline TurboFource

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Re: 3 row aluminum radiator for $69!!
« Reply #25 on: Friday,July 22, 2022, 12:12:03 PM »
I also have about 628 square inches of surface on the 6061 aluminum coolant piping that I fabricated…
maybe I should add a fan to blow through the chassis …..
The more I do the more I find I need to do....remember your ABC’s …anything but chinesium!

Offline GavinT

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Re: 3 row aluminum radiator for $69!!
« Reply #26 on: Friday,July 22, 2022, 01:24:00 PM »
Seller gives three dimensions for overall size (19.68" x 10.51" x 3.54") . . .

This "GPI Racing" radiator quotes overall dimensions as 500 x 331 x106mm
Which translates to 19.68" x 13.03" x 4.17"

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/255530726679?hash=item3b7ed17517:g:BfsAAOSwDFViezTj


Leaving aside the core thickness for a moment, there seems to be a height difference of roughly 2.5 inches!
I wonder if that's a typo.
What is the height of the stock radiator?

Offline TurboFource

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Re: 3 row aluminum radiator for $69!!
« Reply #27 on: Friday,July 22, 2022, 01:31:05 PM »
About 11 inches
The more I do the more I find I need to do....remember your ABC’s …anything but chinesium!

Offline Vegantune

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Re: 3 row aluminum radiator for $69!!
« Reply #28 on: Friday,July 22, 2022, 01:34:00 PM »
Original equipment radiator height is 11". Free space above is 1.5". Exit grille opening in wheelwell height is only 9". Using all available free space above, only 12.5" would fit, and likely no way to install given studs on bottom. But it would still be limited on exit by 9" high grille exit in body. the 13.03" has to include both the mounting tab that sticks up on top plus the studs on bottom to account for another 2".

The radiator depth (or may be given as width), as seen in the $69 radiator, does not tell anything about the core thickness. However, the post on eBay you cited does specify a core of 62mm = 2.44 inches. Which tells me the 4.17" depth (or width) they specify is either way off, or is more likely includes something else that sticks out, probably the fan studs.

BTW, that is quite a premium price for that radiator in the post you cited. I wonder if these folks would ship you one, and even with shipping to Australia, cost a lot less for the very same radiator? You might ask.  https://www.ebay.com/itm/403091584657
« Last Edit: Friday,July 22, 2022, 03:21:17 PM by Vegantune »
- A Norwegian Blue with beautiful plumage is still nothing but a dead parrot.

1973 Black Europa TCS/Vegantune JPS #180
1973 White Europa TCS
2012 Jaguar XJL 5.0 Supercharged
1975 Ferrari Dino 308 GT4
1994 Volvo 940 Shoebox Wagon
2005 Yamaha V Star
1998 Kawasaki XII Voyager

Offline TurboFource

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Re: 3 row aluminum radiator for $69!!
« Reply #29 on: Friday,July 22, 2022, 01:34:54 PM »
They may be including the length of the mounting studs etc for shipping size
The more I do the more I find I need to do....remember your ABC’s …anything but chinesium!