72 Europa Brakes

[marks]

Just a silly thought:  Might it be possible to resleeve the existing Europa master cylinder to 0.70?  Maybe there is not enough outer casing or depth? I know what I have to take apart and replumb; so, I was just looking at saving some of my existing lines.

[BDA]

I had White Post (https://whitepost.com/brake-sleeving-rebuilding-services/) sleeve mine in brass. I presume they could sleeve a M/C to pretty much any diameter you want. It's worth giving them a call to find out.

[marks]

Thanks for the answer!  I am far from being a skilled mechanic; however, is there a reason that the fix without boosters is to go to the Triumph master cylinder and not resleeve the TC master cylinder to the correct bore?  I know that some of you have been through this:  jack the car up, take the skid plate off, take the hood off, to get the spare tire out (Is there a way to get the spare tire out without taking the hood off?), get my special wrench to get the top bolt off the master cylinder, etc.  put together, take apart, repeat, Maybe that is part of the fun?

[Grumblebuns]

I believe the biggest factor is cost. Haven't had a M/C re-sleeved in a30 years so I don't know what the current cost is. It probably is not cheap and reserved for cars with unavailable M/Cs. The second factor is re-work. From peoples experiences, it is not unusual for the first attempt to be a total failure and the M/C has to be sent back for re-work. With a new M/C, odds of getting a bad M/C out of the box is pretty rare.
 

[BDA]

Grumblebuns is correct that a new M/C is the best. I've rebuilt a few M/Cs and it became clear that it was a hit or miss (mostly miss) proposition for me. White Post warrants their sleeved brake parts for a life time. The are a well established outfit. I had them do my M/C and rear calipers and they did a great job.

[EuropaTC]

Thanks for the answer!  I am far from being a skilled mechanic; however, is there a reason that the fix without boosters is to go to the Triumph master cylinder and not resleeve the TC master cylinder to the correct bore?  I know that some of you have been through this:  jack the car up, take the skid plate off, take the hood off, to get the spare tire out (Is there a way to get the spare tire out without taking the hood off?), get my special wrench to get the top bolt off the master cylinder, etc.  put together, take apart, repeat, Maybe that is part of the fun?

I wouldn't worry about not being a skilled mechanic, few of us are. Personally, my method when I get stuck with any Lotus is just get a bigger hammer.... 

Yes, you can re-sleeve the original but why ? If you are a concours guy then yep, it makes sense although in that case you'd be retaining the boosters as well. But if you just want to retain as many original parts as possible then I'm sure it could be done and there will be a sense of satisfaction in saving something from the scrap heap.

For me though it would be an added complication. Jack up car, remove part, clean it up and send it away. Wait....   a week ? two weeks ?  receive the re-sleeved part, go back into the garage, wipe away cobwebs, fit it, bleed brakes and away you go.

But with a new replacement ? remove part, fit new one, bleed brakes. Job all done in the same day. Sit back, smile, drink beer.

Brian

[marks]

I ordered the Triumph master cylinder today; and I hope that the retrofit goes somewhat smooth.  I appreciate all your advice!  Sincerely, Mark

[Bryan Boyle]

I ordered the Triumph master cylinder today; and I hope that the retrofit goes somewhat smooth.  I appreciate all your advice!  Sincerely, Mark

I think, the more I read, that's the path I'm going to go down...after getting rid of the boosters and PWDV (the chance of really needing it to save a circuit is really really small); I didn't have one in any of the previous europas I owned and never lost a brake circuit...can't say it will never happen, but there are more things on this car that will strand you than the brake system; if you simplify it...you can balance reliability against complexity...

[Grumblebuns]

Don't be surprised if after you install the jumpers that there is a bit of leakage from the new unions. The stock brake lines are steel and may have been on the M/C for decades taking a set with the old M/C. If tightening the tube nut to the union does not fix the leak, you may have to cut off the old flared end and re-tube with a new bubble flare. You will need one of these tools.

https://www.eastwood.com/eastwood-on-car-flaring-tool-for-3-16-tubing.html     

[Bryan Boyle]

Don't be surprised if after you install the jumpers that there is a bit of leakage from the new unions. The stock brake lines are steel and may have been on the M/C for decades taking a set with the old M/C. If tightening the tube nut to the union does not fix the leak, you may have to cut off the old flared end and re-tube with a new bubble flare. You will need one of these tools.

https://www.eastwood.com/eastwood-on-car-flaring-tool-for-3-16-tubing.html     

Already planning on trimming the lines back to right before where they bend up to go into the boosters (putting fresh flares on them) and after the PDWV where they go back forward (may put a proportion valve on the rear line...) on their circuitous journey around the car.  Maybe someday I'll replumb the system (when I pull the lump?), but for now, I'll be hanging over the rear of the car into the boot and working from that position. 

How hard could it be (in my best Jeremy Clarkson mimic...)?

[EuropaTC]

Maybe someday I'll replumb the system (when I pull the lump?), but for now, I'll be hanging over the rear of the car into the boot and working from that position. 

How hard could it be (in my best Jeremy Clarkson mimic...)?

On a Lotus ? not hard at all.....

Take out the luggage tray, prop up the rear lid with a broom/stick of your choice and then sit on the gearbox. Easy !

[Fotog]

I have a new Spitfire MC that I plan to install very soon on my TC.  Joji, you give a link to a flaring tool, and if I understand, you think it's for bubble flares, but it's not.  I haven't found a moderately priced bubble flaring tool, but you'd think they're out there with all the European cars in circulation.  I believe those are the normal flares for them.

So, it turns out that I have a piece of unused brake line with a bubble flare at each end.  I plan to use that; cut it in half, and use each half as a jumper to the old brake lines (cut back a bit), joining them with a U.S. typical SAE double-flared coupling.  Seems like brake line flaring is always a bit hit-or-miss, but my tool is of the sort that Joji shows us from Eastwood, and it works pretty well.  I just mention in case someone wants to weigh-in about some complication I haven't anticipated.

But...I'm unclear about what the issue is with the new vs. old actuator shaft on the replacement Spitfire MC and the old Lotus one.  I guess that the length is different, and there's a question about whether the business end at the MC is the right shape to just swap the old one into the new MC, is that correct?

Vince

[jbcollier]

Cheap single/bubble flare tool:

https://www.amazon.com/Capri-Tools-Double-Flaring-CP21110-316/dp/B0859QMSNX/ref=sr_1_7?crid=2R2DPS5EYTNIN&keywords=brake+line+flare+tool&qid=1648227360&sprefix=brake+line+flare+tool%2Caps%2C94&sr=8-7

This is just an example.  I used a similar tool for 15 years and got good single/bubble flares every time.  I've now graduated to an Eastman kit which maybe quicker and easier to use but does not make "better" flares.

[Fotog]

Thanks, JB.  It wasn't apparent that that sort of tool will do a 'bubble' flare, but with some more digging, it seems so.

-V

[Kendo]

I thought in general that any tool that could do a double flare could do a bubble flare, just don't do the last step. But it's been 20+ years since I went through my brake system. A few brain cells could have retired.