How long does it typically take to remove an engine?

[Tom999w]

How long does it typically take to remove an engine with the trans attached for a 1971 Federal S2? I want to be sure I'm not doing something wrong if it runs into weeks... The gglotus club files say it should take half a day out of the bottom of the car. So I'm thinking two days for a newbie in an unheated garage in the middle of winter.. Does that sound about right?

[EuropaTC]

I haven't got an S2 so there might be a few differences but I wouldn't have imagined it's significantly more difficult than the TC engine.

If you've worked on cars and removed engines before I would expect you to do the job within the day so two days should be ample. I tend to remove the luggage tray and sit inside the engine bay on the gearbox, you've got great access then !

It's all down to preparation. Soak every nut/bolt in release oil the day before you start. Read the manual, note if there's any tools you need that you don't have - for example something to drive the roll pins out if you're taking both engine & gearbox out. Make a check list of the stages and order of undoing things.

After that it's just down to how long it's been there/how rusty the parts are. We've all spent far too much time struggling with parts but even so I doubt you'd be more than a day at it.

Brian

Edit to add - I've just re-read & realised you're taking the engine & gearbox out together. That's actually easier than just the engine alone. Check you have a punch suitable for the driveshaft pins, if not, make one.

[4129R]

The long job is getting the complete exhaust system off. If the 8 head stud nuts holding the manifold/header on are tight, or worse still the studs shear, it takes a while.

How long it takes depends on how easy all the bolts are to remove. I can get an engine out in about 4 hours, but that is with all new nuts and bolts.

You will need an engine crane to lift it out. I attach 2 chains to the exhausts studs and inlet manifold to lift it out.   

[andyj007]

 I attach 2 chains to the exhausts studs ........

 

that seems like it could damadge teh studs surely?

[4129R]

I attach 2 chains to the exhausts studs ........

 

that seems like it could damadge teh studs surely?

I put penny washers and the nuts back on to hold the chains on the studs. Never had any problems with the studs.

[Bryan Boyle]

I attach 2 chains to the exhausts studs ........

 

that seems like it could damadge teh studs surely?

I put penny washers and the nuts back on to hold the chains on the studs. Never had any problems with the studs.

On an S2, pay heed to the instruction in the shop manual to NOT lift by the head.  If you're not rebuilding, but just pulling, you don't want to disturb the base seals on the jugs by supporting the entire weight of the engine from the head, which WILL lead to coolant leak into the oil pan...and subsequent further (as in all the way) tear down of the motor.  Lotus (and Renault) put that in both marque's manuals for a reason.  There are lifting points on the bell housing/engine join; I usually use a nylon strap sling around the front under the bottom of the engine and under the rear of the tranny on a crane to lift out.  Lowering, if you're not careful or have a lot of padding on the jack, and you can crush the sheet steel oil pan (which is concave, and the oil pick up is close to the bottom inside.).  Usually doing what the manual says is the best way...just a thought.

Non-wet sleeve engines, go ahead and lift by the head. 

How long?  The first time?  Budget a day.  Second time?  Couple hours.  Back in the early 80s, in the northeast, when Lotus East was having a second gen bits fire sale (and crate engines in cosmolene were being dumped for $250) after Rolls took over the distribution, Marco Competition in Montclair NJ bought a few...and when S2s came in with leaky gaskets or what have you, it was cheaper and faster to just pull the experienced engine out and drop in the crate motor.  Yeah, the numbers didn't match, but, in the early 80s, folks were still driving these things around and not worried about certificates of provenance and showing off the car...

[Tom999w]

I attach 2 chains to the exhausts studs ........

Two chains? Isn't he a famous rapper? He lives near you? Nice, it's good to know that he's lending you a helping hand 

[Tom999w]

Great, thanks for the info everyone. I'm not removing the engine to replace it, it's seized, so I'm going to try to crack the frozen piston(s) loose. I saw on youtube that some Europa pistons get so stuck in there that torches and sledge hammers can't bust them loose. The car also has 50k miles on it, and based on searching this website, it seems that most people rebuild their engines around 50-75k miles because the crankshaft/cam bearings wear out. I don't really want to remove the engine and would ideally like to crack the piston loose with more mystery oil, but I bought the car as a project, and project cars always have unexpected turns in the road to restoration. Most things I can repair/inspect/replace while the engine's in the car (head, manifolds, oil/filter, most gaskets, water pump, belts, alternator, starter, oil pan gasket, oil pump, distributor, worn motor mounts, etc.) But I wanted to take the engine out to replace the timing chain/gears/guides/tensioners, cam bearings, crankshaft bearings, piston bearings, piston rings, cylinder base gaskets, etc.). When I bought the car a few weeks ago the cylinders already had mystery oil in them to soak but it's still seized. Someone on this forum said to try Coca Cola in the cylinders but it's 16 degrees here in upstate New York and freezing liquid in the engine block would cause more havoc.

[4129R]

If the engine will not rotate, you will have to remove the head and crank, and then one by one try to push the pistons up the bores.

Normally water gets into the two cylinders with the valves open, and rusts the bores badly.

The pistons may be re-usable, but the bores will need very careful checking.

Fitting 4 new liners may be necessary if the corrosion is bad. That should cost less than new pistons. Been there, done that.

[Tom999w]

Yes, I agree. Dakazman also said in another post that the piston skirts tend to crack also. I searched around for companies that sell new pistons if needed, but didn't find any. Someone is currently selling used pistons and cylinders on fleabay right now, so that may be an option if pistons and/or cylinders are needed.

[jbcollier]

Lotus-Supplies, RD and Renaut16 shop all carry new piston/liner kits for the Europa 1470 and 1565 engines.  They have the correct, high-compression pistons.

[dakazman]

Yes, I agree. Dakazman also said in another post that the piston skirts tend to crack also. I searched around for companies that sell new pistons if needed, but didn't find any. Someone is currently selling used pistons and cylinders on fleabay right now, so that may be an option if pistons and/or cylinders are needed.

   Tom,        I just did an observation. JB has answered perfectly.

Dakazman
 

[314159td]

Reviving this thread for a topical question and the previous lifting discussion.

I'm pulling an S1 engine and transaxle soon, and a bit confused on the right side lifting point. The manual calls it out with "Secure the right hand leg of the sling at the point where the earth (ground) lead is normally attached to the cylinder block." and uses the worst picture possible to show this, in addition to the ground lead being rather common to not end up in the same spot...

My ground lead is attached to the bolt circled in red. The image in the manual makes it seem like blue isn't the correct place (though it looks perfect for a ground lead)
Is it supposed to be one of those or something else?

I'm using a Harbor Freight load leveler that happens to work almost perfectly as a replacement for that proprietary sling. https://www.harborfreight.com/3-4-quarter-ton-capacity-heavy-duty-load-leveler-67441.html

[Richard48Y]

In chasing the question of pistons and liners for my S2 build I quickly found it to be less expensive to buy the set new from Europe than to try to reuse the pistons or liners.
Very few shops around anymore that will bore liners, and if they did your pistons would no longer fit.
Of course I've gone overboard on my Cross-Flow so spent more than strictly necessary.
Even RD Ent. have S2 pistons and liners in stock, but over $1,000.
R16 shop has them at Euro 425 - 450. $460 - $487.
Here's hoping your Cam is in excellent condition, they are expensive.
If you have a seized/scored crank new ones are available at around $600.
If you need rods I have a set of upgraded type from my engine for cheap.
We need more S2's on the road!