Is a Europa going to be a better touring car than my DHC Elan S4?

[Tdskip]

Hi folks – appreciate the thoughts in advance, you all have been exceptionally helpful on answering questions and getting me oriented when I was looking at some projects previously.

I am happy to report that the 1969 Elan is back on the road since the first time since 1991, and then of course it means it might be time to buy another Lotus.

I like to use my cars for weekends and longer road trips, so well I am greatly enjoying the Elan it could use longer legs on the highway and is so hyper connected that every time I drive it I feel like I’m getting intervenous injections of caffeine. huge fun, but it’s not screaming drive me to San Francisco from Southern California.

I do not expect that a Europa is going to be some luxury liner barge, but compared to the DHC Elan do you think it would make a more naturally suited touring car if I don’t go crazy with the state of the suspension and exhaust tuning?  One of the best road trip experience they had was a couple years ago when my girlfriend flew up to meet me in San Francisco and then we took one of my 914‘s down the coast, yes she did most of the driving which was awesome, and The 914 proved to be a great touring car and had plenty of room for her tendency to pack a bit heavy. I don’t expect the Europa will have as much luggage space and I do expect the Europa to be a much more visceral experience but is it relaxed enough to crack off 400 to 600 miles over the course of a couple days?

[BDA]

I have very little experience with Elans. When I got my Europa, convertibles didn’t interest me. I do have some experience with driving a Europa on a long trip, albeit when I was much younger.

When I first got my Europa, a buddy and I went on a road trip. Over the course of a month, I drove about 10,000 miles. Being two guys, we didn’t pack very heavily, but we were able to stow an amazing amount of stuff. Things were tucked under seats, in door grip areas, and, of course in both trunks. As long as you use soft side luggage, it holds more than you’d think. Full disclosure - we didn’t bother with luggage. Does a Europa hold as much as an Elan? I can’t say.

As you probably already know, Europas are very comfortable once you are inside. That stands for long drives as well. I don’t know but I suspect that the Europa compares very favorably to the Elan in that regard.

I would enjoy a long trip in either. My wife, on the other hand, doesn’t want to ride in my Europa for more than a mile! She complains about claustrophobia which is somewhat understandable given how low you are and that you are surrounded by car. If that is an issue for either of you, then being able to put the top down would be an advantage.

[Tdskip]

Thanks for the thoughtful and details response.

Elan’s don’t have much luggage room, since thr fuel tank and spare tire takes up most of the trip k space. It looks like if, as you suggested, I take softball gauge the front and rear trunk so the Europa will actually hold a fair amount of stuff. I would imagine you probably wouldn’t want to put things that are sensitive to heat in the rear trunk, but the wine and chocolate can go up front. Grin.

I would imagine the noise levels, not to mention just sun and wind exposure, or more favorable in the Europa for long drives.

Thanks again for the thoughts!

[BDA]

As I wrote that, i remembered a significant drive I went on in an Elan. It was from New Orleans to Road Atlanta for the SCCA championships. My buddy was a real convertible guy and we rode in pretty cold weather (maybe low 40s to high 30s) with the top down. The heater was turned all the way up and we wore our heaviest coat. Mine wasn't heavy enough and I froze! He loved it!

Again, I was a lot younger then so other than that, the drive was great. Ride and noise wasn't a problem but I think most women have a problem with that much wind in their hair. I think there was probably substantial wind noise but I was too cold to remember it!

You're right. Wine and chocolate go in the front trunk! Laundry goes in the rear. 

[EuropaTC]

Hi there,

Well, like some others on here, we've got both cars and I've owned them for a long time;  Elan since the mid 70s, Europa mid 80s. Both were daily cars when I bought them and both used for holidays away, in fact the Elan was used a lot for weekend camping - and that was with a frame tent !

In sunshine and on quiet country roads I prefer the Elan, mainly because I like convertibles.  As you say it's low geared (3.5diff on mine) but on country roads I don't really see it as a problem. Ok, we were younger back then but still managed 2-3hr drives with a packed car for weekends away.

For something like a motorway trip then the Europa is far, far better. Mine is the 4sp and technically still "buzzy" with similar revs/mph as the Elan but the engine/gearbox are behind your head so I never really notice it. But the big factor is wind noise, the Europa has very little wind noise and that can be a bad thing because you can hear the rattles from everything else 

Could you do weekends & 2-300 miles in a day ? well, we have and with no problem at all.  If you want to cruise at 70/80/??? then it's going to be noisier than a modern car but far less than an Elan.  Consider that back in the day Lotus did TC development by sending folks off to Italy & back for the weekend to check reliability, that's over 3,000 miles in a weekend on the prototypes.

In the UK we don't drive as far as you guys will in normal life (smaller country, etc) but we do have our moments. We'd go to Club Lotus weekends in either car and both are fine. Probably more luggage space in the Europa, the rear boot is smaller than the Elan but the front compensates. We also stowed stuff behind the seats in the Elan, something you can't do in the Europa but wife + clothes + "how many handbags "  for evenings were never an issue.

Finally - when we first moved here I'd do 380 mile round trips in a day to see parents.   We never used the Elan/Europa but I would use the Elise because it's nippy;  I was  usually was shattered afterwards.   In my opinion 400 miles/day in a Europa would be much more comfortable/quieter (but slower) than a modern day Elise.  That might give you something else to think about - the Europa was well ahead of it's time and I'd say still holds well today.

Brian

[literarymadness]

A Europa can be made into fairly comfortable GT especially if you find one with A/C or install it yourself.  A five speed is also a big plus for highway cruising. A friend of mine on this forum has a TCS with a highly functional A/C and a custom electric sunroof and a well dialed suspension (and quick). A proper GT.  I have ridden in it as a passenger many times and will attest to its high degree of civility. My TCS is on the other end of the spectrum, it is loud and far less refined and much more of a hooligan.  So a Europa can be had in many flavors.

[jbcollier]

Both my wife and I love taking long trips in the Europa.

Luggage capacity is quite good: tools and spares for the trip go in with the spare tire, my bags go in the front luggage area and my wife’s in the rear.  Lots of room with nothing left behind.  The Europa is also extremely comfortable, especially over a long haul.  Ingress and egress is a little on the gymnastic side and one has to pay attention to not parking too close to curbs.

Highway speeds are a bit frenetic with the revs up around 3500+ rpm.  I have an S1 and the cabin is quite noisy.  All very charming for an hour or so.  Anything longer than that and I use noise-cancelling aviation headsets and an intercom system (works great!).

You are quite low what with other car’s hub caps being at eye level.   High curbs can limit your view other than skywards.

Highlighting the negatives a bit here but the pluses are plentiful and enjoyable.  I particularly love the fact that a Europa has a high curiosity factor but no richer-f**k factor.

[GavinT]

. . . but is it relaxed enough to crack off 400 to 600 miles over the course of a couple days?

Easy.

When I first rebuilt my S2, it had 68 miles on the clock or something like that - newly rebuilt engine plus everything else one might expect. Took off from Brisbane to Melbourne (Australia) which is about 1,200 miles and encountered only three incidents. The engine was run in on this trip.

1. Pulled in for a pit stop and smelled fuel. It was the new fuel lines and new clamps and they had 'relaxed' somewhat and one was leaking. Tightened them up and all was well after that. The Europa goes a long way on two tanks.

2. Driving along in the middle of the night and had a wire break loose on the back of the tach. The car came to a stop with no electrics. Was able to isolate the offending wire with tape temporarily until it could be fixed properly.

3. Nearly missed a turn off at one point and under somewhat heavy braking, great clouds of blue smoke emanated from the engine cover. I never figured out the cause and it only happened once. The top of the head was covered in oil so I suspect a perhaps a blocked PCV valve had caused oil to pool on the head and under braking, the oil spilled onto the exhaust. Carry a big fire extinguisher at the very least.

Yes, it was noisy with twin DCOE's and only paper air filters.
What was initially the much vaunted marvellous Weber music soon turns into a drone after a few hours. I fabricated an air box to fix that.

In terms of comfort, it's fine IMHO and the compliant ride very good even at highway speed.
Mine has a sunroof and the sun exposure was often too much during the day (it can be hot here) but absolutely brilliant at night. Dunno if I should keep it or not.
Wind exposure is largely non existent. You can run at highway speeds with pretty much zero appreciable buffeting but there is unavoidable wind noise just like any car. Overall noise from the car is much less than a Series 1 Elise, though.

Here's a pic from that trip - out in the back blocks of New South Wales . . . and many miles from civilisation.

[S2Zetec54]

…can't do a comparison but my Wife and I did a long weekend trip on the South Coast of UK. Was able to take enough kit to keep Wife happy and me happy with tool kit etc…the spare wheel aswell holds quite a bit of stuff if you don't mind it potentially getting wet or dusty.

Very comfy as a tourer and it’s compliant suspension. Mine is VERY noisy ( no tracks that will allow me on to give give you an idea) so ear plugs were a must…..like the idea of aviation headsets

Also did a cross country run to Lincolnshire and back (Gloucestershire) in a day …..pre pandemic and arrived back home in reasonable Nick…..they are quite a car for drawing attention….good to get some miles under my belt and to start exploring grip.

[Dan C 2624R]

JB Wrote
"Highway speeds are a bit frenetic with the revs up around 3500+ rpm.  I have an S1 and the cabin is quite noisy.  All very charming for an hour or so.  Anything longer than that and I use noise-cancelling aviation headsets and an intercom system (works great!)."

My question is, what headset did you choose?  This is something I have been looking at for a future purchase and I don't know what is "good" or "best"

Thanks in advance for any info.

Dan in NJ
2624R

[Tdskip]

Thank you for all of the observation and experiences, very much appreciate the thoughts.

Keen to hear about the headsets as well.

Given that Southern California in the trip back-and-forth to San Francisco from here, let alone Seattle, has a lot of miles involved would I be likely looking at swapping out the final drive gear set or retrofitting a five speed gearbox? I know the earlier gearboxes are supposedly a bit cleaner and how they shift but if it’s going to feel Buzzy on the highway at 65 to 70 I already experience in the Elan. Grin.

(Btw I am seriously looking at a modified final ratio for the Elon differential)

[jbcollier]

I use Bose A20 aviation headsets.  Get the blue tooth ones for easy coupling of a phone.  I then run them through a simple aviation intercom controller.  The headsets run on a pair of AA batteries which last a long time if you remember to shut them off.  They can come with a few different cable types so buy to match your intercom.

High revs at highway is a more difficult problem.  The usual 5 speed transaxles have an “overdrive”,true, but also a lower final drive (3.78 vs 3.56) so the difference in revs at speed is not really that much.  Many of the 5 speed options also have a crazy low first so you end up with a 4 speed and a bulldog low.

The best is the Lotus 365 supplied 5 spd: the first four gear  ratios are very nicely spaced and fifth is a larger, overdrive step.  Next I would suggest an early 395 with a later 0.85 fifth grafted in: nice 3.4 first and a reasonable OD — the stock 0.93 fifth is way too close to the fourth.  There is an annoying large step between 3rd and 4th though.  After that there are the later 395s and NG transaxles.  The NG series is much stronger but first Is ridiculously low.

[literarymadness]

I am not sure that aviation headsets are legal while driving in Florida. Florida statue 3.16 204: (Wearing of headsets) (1) No person shall operate a vehicle while wearing a headset, headphone, or other listening device, other than a hearing aid or instrument for the improvement of defective human hearing.

California has a similar law. Once again I'm not sure about aviation headsets in particular. Noise levels would have to be injurious to your hearing to qualify.  Here is the link to the California Code:
https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/codes_displaySection.xhtml?lawCode=VEH&sectionNum=27400.#:~:text=87.%20)-,27400.,as%20defined%20in%20Section%20165.

[tedtaylor]

"Apples & Oranges"   Two totally DIFFERENT cars completely.   You cannot compare the Elan with a Europa, or vice versa.   I've owned the best of both models (a 5 speed genuine JPS Europa and an Elan Sprint)...
however i can say that BOTH are excellent touring cars with total comfort (depending upon weather = ie: top up or down, heat/temperature, etc.)

[jbcollier]

literarymadness

Absolutely, probably illegal in many jurisdictions, maybe even mine.  Still think they are a good idea in a noisy car and plan to continue using mine.  YM (and luck) MV