Tyres

[jpane]

Delayed reply to JeffBatt. With the Dunlop's it cornered like it was on rails. The CN36 did not feel as secure, an was definitely not as supple. As I said, I think the difference was fabric vs steel.

[JeffBatt]

Thanks, everyone, for your reposes. I’m struggling a bit with this decision, as far as I can tell right now my three primary choices are either the Pirellis, Kumho all-seasons, or R888’s with less sidewall.

All seem to have distinct pros and cons.

[Clifton]

R888's are a soft tires. On a light Europa, they will harden before wearing out unless doing track days. Some say they are noisy. Completely different tire than a Kumho all season. If you are just a casual driver that never drives more than 75%, I wouldn't get the Toyo's.

[jbcollier]

The Toyos are also DOT-legal, track-oriented tires.  Might not be the best choice if cold, wet days are in your driving future.

[Dilkris]

This saga sort of continues..... finally managed to locate 175-185/70/13 tires, (they came from Belgium), and then had an interesting conversation with the tire center as I wanted to discuss tire valve options. As you will recall in one of my previous threads I spent ages refurbishing the original TCS alloy rims so off I trot to the tire center c/w one of my rims.

I REALLY wanted to use chrome 2 piece valves but it was pointed out that the profile of the rim both inside and outside within the area of the valve hole in the rim precludes this - I accept this - it makes cense and is pretty obvious. 

However, the tire "guru" then explains that the wheel profile has only one "safety flange" and therefore it would be dangerous/unwise/not recommended to run tubeless tires on them and that I must use tubes.....
This of course opens up another debate about whether you can/can't/shouldn't run tubes in a tubeless tire - of which a myriad of opinions abound.

So... for the members running TCS with the original alloy rims - what are you running tire wise?       
           

[Grumblebuns]

Weren't the original wheel/tire combination from the factory tubeless? I would get second opinion from another installer. I've never had a tire installer commenting on my Lotus alloy wheel being a safety issue.

I'm currently running Toyo R888s on my S2, 185s all around, outstanding grip.

 

[jbcollier]

You can run tubes in tubeless tires with a few provisos.  First, it has to be within reason.  A standard 15” tube will not work in 235/45-15 tire!  70 series should be fine.  Second, adding a tube lowers the tire’s speed rating two steps.  So “H” rated tires become “T” rated tires (130 to 118 mph).

The “safety ridge” helps retains the bead during severe side loading.  Which side of the rim has the safety ridge on the TC alloys?

[Dilkris]

Grumblebuns - "yes" - my research (specifically from copy of owners manual data) - describes tires are tubed.
John - "I'm not sure" - will check and photograph the profile (or try to) tomorrow. 

[MRN I J]

You can run tubes in tubeless tires with a few provisos.  First, it has to be within reason.  A standard 15” tube will not work in 235/45-15 tire!  70 series should be fine.  Second, adding a tube lowers the tire’s speed rating two steps.  So “H” rated tires become “T” rated tires (130 to 118 mph).

The “safety ridge” helps retains the bead during severe side loading.  Which side of the rim has the safety ridge on the TC alloys?

The speed rating is largely irrelevant in this speed controlled world, 30 years ago I regularly had my s2 up to 125mph, would get hung, drawn & quartered now.
I doubt many MOT testers would now about tubes reducing the speed rating of a tyre

[surfguitar58]

I have a feeling we are all living dangerously without tubes. 

BTW - regarding ti(y)re selection, I went with the Pirellis, against advice. So far I am quite happy with them. The installer over inflated them (more on that later) and they were horribly squirrely, until I realized the mistake and took them down to recommended pressure. Big improvement! They seem to grip nicely compared to the aging Coopers that came with the car, though I have only driven the in slight anger (63 yo street punk mode). They are summer-only tires and mine is a summer only car. You track guys, may scoff, but I also love the way they look, retro sportscar tread and all.

I bought mine on line from Lucas Classic Tire (Long Beach CA, USA). On the negative side, my rears are date code 2020 but my fronts are from 2017. I also had to try 4 different tire shops to find someone willing to mount tires on 13 inch rims from a "classic sportscar" for fear of liability from damaging the rims. I finally found a guy who just opened his own shop and needed the work and did the mounting himself. He also needed a LOT of weights to balance the wheel, though I suspect the problem is in the wheel casting, not the tire as there is evidence the old tires required weights in the same location.

Tom

[4129R]

Tyre fitter is talking complete crap. Fit them without tubes. The factory did as standard, and the vast majority of Europa owners do. Someone please correct me if you disagree.

I had to run tubes when rally driving. It had no detrimental effect, but was a complete waste of time and money.

[BDA]

One of the many things I know little about is tires but I remember tubeless Dunlop fabric radials (nylon?) were OEM on my Brand Lotus wheels when I bought my car. I know of no problems running tubeless nor for not having a second safety flange. Of course, tire construction has changed a lot since 1975 and as JB reminds us YMMV. I do remember talk back then that the steel belted radials that were just becoming popular back then were not supposed to work as well as the fabric radials but if that ever really was an issue, it is not as serious a situation now although in a conversation with Ken Gray at DBE, he suggested that new tires have some handling deficiencies.

I'm assuming that the second safety flange is designed to help keep the bead of the tire against the edge of the wheel. I don't run the original Brand Lotus wheels now but rather 3-piece Compomotive wheels. I don't remember what they looked like without tires on them but looking at the lips, there does not appear to be such a second safety flange and I have no problems with my tires.

Correction: I had a wheel off this afternoon and noticed on the barrel section (inner part of the wheel) there seemed to be a safety flange so I'm guessing they are on both sides of the wheel. And since it's obvious I don't mind being wrong, I'm going to suggest that those safety flanges or ridges came after, maybe long after, our Europas. I don't remember seeing them back then.

[Clifton]

I don't know about the factory wheels but on the valve stems, have you looked into aluminum ones? Might match the aluminum wheel finish better than chrome and are light. Can probably source some from Ebay too.

http://949racing.com/lugs-valves.aspx

[EuropaTC]

I've never heard that one before and I've never fitted tubes to either the Elan (steel wheels, profile similar to the S2 Europa) or the Europa. 

But curiosity raised I had a look in the TC owners manual and found these two pages which acknowledge the potential for the tyre to move. However it states fairly clearly that if you stick to the specifications they give then there's no need to fit tubes in tubeless tyres.

Then in true Lotus fashion, they muddy the waters by specifying in the workshop manual that the standard tyres are Dunlop SP Sport fitted with tubes.....    but then go on for the optional alloy wheels to omit the "with tubes" bit for the wider tyre/rim combination.  Excellent !!!!!

Brian

[jbcollier]

I disagree about disregarding speed ratings.  Most of the tires available now in the stock sizes are “off-brand” with not particularly high speed ratings.  Add a tube and you “might” be in trouble on a road where the mean speed is 80+ mph.  Just something to factor in when choosing tires, and rims.

The tire bead is most likely to push off the outside rim edge as that receives the highest cornering load.  If the safety ridge is on the out side, as it usually is, you should be fine.