Europa TC valve timing

[YellowS4DHC]

TC folks, how did (do?) you check your valve timing? 

Doing that with the engine in the car seems to present problems as the cooling tubes severely limit the diameter of a degree wheel that could be mounted on the crankshaft, and hence, the precision of the whole effort.  Also, the crude timing marks on the flywheel could be corrected and augmented, but the small "window" will likely make that a real pain.

Any comments or suggestions from those who have done this are appreciated.

thanks
Rick

[4380r]

Well, Rick I can't speak for anyone else, but in the instance you describe, I take it to a shop that knows what it's doing!

[EuropaTC]

Confession time Rick, I have only ever used the standard marks on the timing wheels.     I've never used a grown-up wheel to set them spot on, neither on the Elan or the Europa. 

My logic (excuse) is that I only use the standard Lotus cams and only the Elan has had a 0.005" skim on the head, so they are both very much standard engines and the timing chains aren't even half-way adjusted.  I cynically suspect that when the engines were originally assembled on the production line they just had the engraved marks to go on as shown in the workshop manual, so that's what I do. 

I think if I ever rebuilt either engine with a hotter cam which required a degree wheel & offset dowels then I'd take the engine out and do it on the bench where I could easily see what I was doing. It would be a new world for me, and with a typical lack of confidence around the consequences of getting it wrong,  I'd want to be very clear on what I was doing.

Brian

[YellowS4DHC]

Brian,

I can understand your reluctance to try this with the engine in the car.  Doing this on the Elan or Europa will be hard with the engine in place as there just isn't a lot of room to work in.  I must confess that when I checked the valve timing on my wife's S800 twin cam, the engine was sitting on the bench and that made it pretty easy.  Hell, I could sit on a stool and do it.

But, still, you likely have hp just sitting there waiting to be tapped.  It's really free, if you ignore the cost of your time.  Relying on factory timing marks is, IMHO, just giving up hp.  When you have only 105 or so hp, any improvement is likely to be felt.

I recently got my head work completed (smoothing out the valve pockets for better flow) and now I'm prepping for a higher lift intake cam.

So, in order to justify the money spent on the cam, new valve springs, new followers, new cam bearings, and the recently completed head work, I have to degree my cams - one way or the other.  I guess I'll just plow ahead and see if the wife can help me.  With the Europa - engine in situ - this is a two person job unless you're good with mirrors. (It's hard to read a dial indicator measuring piston or cam follower position when you're under the car turning the crankshaft)

Rick

 

[EuropaTC]

Hat's off to you Rick, even more so if you manage to get your wife lying underneath the car reading off the numbers !   

I can understand why you want to go that way after all the head work and some hotter cams. Taking the engine out is (to me) a major job, something I'd only contemplate over winter so again as you've done this before I don't blame you for trying it in-situ.  I've never used a timing wheel so I'd be concerned about making a mistake, hence wanting to see everything nice and clearly.

When you do this job, please post up your findings and some pictures of how to go about it. I'm not saying I'm off to buy some offset dowels, but I would like to learn from someone who's done the job.

Brian

[Bainford]

Ditto on Brian's request for pictures and any procedural advice you may have to offer. I have never degreed a cam before but have been interested in having a go once I dig deep into serious engine tuning. Doing it on a Europa with the engine in the car will certainly add an element of difficulty. I'm watching this thread with interest.

Regarding turning the engine whilst watching clocks, gauges, timing marks, etc; Whenever I have to do this (I recently did my valve lash clearances whilst working alone, and this method proved exceedingly helpful) I place a floor jack under the lower spring/damper mounting point of one rear wheel (the right rear in my case) and lift the wheel just clear of the ground. The other rear wheel must be solidly on the ground and perhaps chocked, or if both wheels are off the ground (as yours likely are) lock the opposite wheel from turning in some way (some clever thinking should produce a suitable method). With the transmission in 5th gear I was able to rotate the wheel by hand whilst watching the valve train and flywheel timing marks. It wasn't really that hard, and I was doing it with the plugs in. With the plugs removed it should be even easier. This may not solve all of your engine rotating requirements, but certainly could reduce the number of times you have to engage the wife for help, and will allow a degree of contemplation as you work, without an impatient significant other foot tapping nearby, worried that the potatoes are about to boil over.

[YellowS4DHC]

Brian,
I'd never ask the wife to get under the car....she gets to stay topside and read the dial indicator (rank has its privileges, as they say). 

Trevor,
I can see your method would work for valve adjusting, especially if you have a tight space and can't simply roll the car in gear (what I usually do).  However, I'm not sure that would work for cam timing.  Here you need a slow and very controlled motion of the crankshaft so that when you hit the MOP (max opening point) you can instantly stop turning the crank otherwise you'll overshoot and miss the reading on the degree wheel.  In the past, I've simply used a socket on the crankshaft pulley bolt to rotate the engine.  But if it works for you, and you're unmarried, that's the ticket!

Other things have taken priority lately (like repairing the elan driver's window lift) but I managed to get by one hurdle and that was figuring out how to mount the degree wheel without interference from the plumbing.   I'd normally just mount the degree wheel on the outer face of the crankshaft pulley but that won't work with the engine in place.  The solution turns out to be ridiculously simple: the degree wheel (7" dia) will fit if you remove the pulley and simply mount it directly on the end of the crank.  I've attached a couple of pics to show just how tight this is as an experiment; if they don't show up in the post I'll need to get some help.

Next step is to finish de-carbonizing the pistons and fabricate some type of pointer I can mount on one of the front cover bolts.  Then I can, with the wife's help, figure out what type of offset dowels are needed to get correct valve timing.

I'll make an effort to get some decent pics and post them when I can get back to this.

Rick

[EuropaTC]

Hi Rick,

Gee, that's close work !   I can see why a spanner on the crank is the best option for what you're doing although I must admit I've used the "put it in gear and roll a wheel" method myself to set the ignition. It does work well on the Europa.

Anyway, I'm looking forward to what you find. Presumably your new cams are capable of being set up with the timing wheel marks as a start position, and it's going to be interesting to see how much offset you need to get it all spot-on.

Brian

ps - you mean you actually raise the windows in your Elan ? You'll be telling me next that you put the hood up......