TCS - which Alternator?

[Dilkris]

  I am going around in circles here - can somebody (UK side) advise where I can buy the correct alternator for a TCS? (I have no original for guidance.)
Available data shows it to be a Lucas 17ACR (36amp) - is this correct? Lots on ebay, (claiming they fit a TCS), but I am nervous about buying something which is not correct (ie: incorrect pulley size, belt section), and or inferior quality.
A simple link pointing me in the right direction would be great.     

[jbcollier]

Here's a wiring diagram of your alt:



Does that match the wires that you have?

[jbcollier]

Do you have an old alternator you could get the pulley from?

[Dilkris]

Thanks for the diagram John - I have nothing of the old alternator. I have found this below, but am unsure as to its suitability other than it is described as Lucas 17ACR and it appears to be correctly handed. (There is no further data offered other than it has a 15mm shaft size.)   

https://www.autoelectricsupplies.co.uk/product/1118/category/168.

[jbcollier]

What wires and plugs do you have?  Could you post a photo?

The link you posted was to Lucas alt without a pulley.  I'm not a big fan of Lucas alternators.  They do not put out their rated output unless the volts are quite low.  Also, if you run them at full load for long periods, they pop their diodes.

[jbcollier]

Also, your car could have come with a Delco alternator which is why I'm asking about the wire colours and plugs on your car.

[Dilkris]

John, "yes" the link directed you to a Lucas 17 ACR without pully - (Pullies and fans are sold by same Company).

I have 4 wires John, 2 of which I guess are 6mm2 with large spade connectors within a molded female plug , wires are solid Black and Brown/white. Remaining 2 wires I guess are 1mm2 with small spade connectors, wires are Brown/purple and Brown/yellow. (These colors correspond to the diagram below and also also to your supplied diagram - except the 6mm2 solid black should be solid Brown  )

My "archive digging" suggests Lucas Alternator fitted as standard, (but I stand to be corrected)

"Yes" Vegantune I could upgrade to Bosch, but there are cost considerations here; also original Lucas ammeter is +/-30 amps and I am also mindful of how much I will use this car when finished.... 2500 miles/year maybe, at the most.

I notice that the Lucas 17 ACR alternator which I drew attention to uses a 3 wire Lucas/Bosch connector; is this a simple fix to connect from a 4 wire set up?



           

[EuropaTC]

Are you sure it should be a Lucas 17ACR ?  Unless they changed things between the TC and TCS, mine wasn't a Lucas unit.  Looking at the parts manual I have it shows the same part number for TC/TC Federal/TCS/TCSFed. (A074E6000Z) and I wouldn't have imagined they'd keep the same number for a different make of unit.

Although this is Lotus we're talking about....   

The 17ACR will fit, but only just with very little clearance between the back of the alternator and the luggage tray. I know that for sure because I fitted one when my original unit failed. It required re-wiring and new plugs to fit, the OEM ones wouldn't fit the Lucas terminals and even then I fiddled to get a touch of clearance.

The Lucas 16ACR is about 1/4" smaller and would be a better fit although it is fractionally lower output. 

I had the 17ACR for a while but eventually changed it for a Lucas A127 with higher output. The bonus is that it's smaller and fits with plenty of clearance. They come in both Left & right handed versions, just make sure you get the correct one and you're good to go.

I can't recall if I posted on the forum, but the upgrade path is here ;

http://www.martley.plus.com/lotusland2016/europa/16europa03.html

Brian

edit to add - don't try the web page on a phone, it was designed to be viewed on a laptop/desktop screen......   old skule stuff.

[jbcollier]

Ok, just wanted to settle on which alt you would have had originally.  It's an AC Delco DN 460.  You can get rebuilt ones though usually without a pulley.  In that case you would also need to buy a used one somewhere so you have a core and a pulley.

Here's are some "overhauled" ones on ebay:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/294015672627

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/224344737514

https://www.ebay.com/itm/283736578310

(Your guess is as good as mine as to the quality of the work.  Does have a pulley though)

Other sites list remanufactured ones, just search for Delco DN460.

That's the only way to get the plug and play experience you asked for in your first post.

There are lots of other alternators you could fit.  The Lucas ones are not my favourite.  They only hit their rated output once the voltage is quite low.  Worse, they frequently pop their diodes if charging a low battery or experience any high loads.

Myself, I would fit a Delco 65A alt from the 70s and 80s.  Simple hook up, will put out full output practically at idle and will continue to do so reliably -- note: there are crappy rebuilds out there.  Would require making an adapter bracket and very minor changes to the wiring.

I'm sure others will also chime in with other alternators they have used happily.

[Dilkris]

Brian and John, many thanks for your comments and guidance - you have given me enough data for me to be able to conclude this now.
Just for info, I got the Lucas 17 ACR description from the attached. (See electrical section). I can't remember where I got this from - just something I collected over the years.  Maybe it's wrong - or just another "Lotus thing"     

[BDA]

About the only thing I can add to the subject of alternators is that if you have the original Delco unit, there doesn't seem to much to them. I replaced the voltage regulator twice. NAPA used to sell the exact replacement but I don't think they are available any longer but they do have one that will fit with minor changes. The difference is that the lugs for the current replacement are straight rather than bent 90°. The NAPA part number is VR148SB.

[jbcollier]

Are there NAPA stores in the UK?

Don't think so but there are lots of other auto parts stores.

[BDA]

I would guess that NAPA stores are only in North America. I wish I could remember how I described the alternator or the voltage regulator to the guy. I might have used information from this cross reference (https://www.gglotus.org/ggpart/europacr.htm#elec). That might also be useful at other stores.

I should remind anybody who opens up his alternator should mark the case halves so they can go back together the same way.

[EuropaTC]

Just for info, I got the Lucas 17 ACR description from the attached. (See electrical section). I can't remember where I got this from - just something I collected over the years.  Maybe it's wrong - or just another "Lotus thing"   

That looks like a PDF version of the Golden Gate list, so I can see where you're coming from.  I know alternators were fitted to the +2 Elans and as an upgrade for the 2 seat Elan, perhaps that's where the Lucas unit comes from in that list.    John triggered my memory though, it was an AC unit originally. Personally I'd fit a (new) modern unit and adapt the wiring to suit. It's no big deal and you'll get the benefit of 50+ years of alternator development plus you won't be relying on the "remanufacture" aspect.

Brian

[Dilkris]

Are there NAPA stores in the UK?

I have never heard of them John, but just Googled it and "yes" there are..!!! See copy and paste below:-

NAPA IN THE UNITED KINGDOM
Over 280 separate stockists make up the NAPA network within the UK, providing a convenient service to the many garages working on vehicle repairs.