New Member / Europa Build in New Zealand

[Bcal]

Hello to All

Have just joined the forum and hopeful that I can get some assistance with what is involved in modifying an Europa.

A bit of background .. I live in Christchurch , New Zealand and over the last 10 years have been modifying and racing a Lotus 2-11 and a Elise / Exige . I have always been involved with racing having spent 20 years racing Motocross before moving into cars .
https://www.lotustalk.com/threads/elise-k20-race-car-build-new-zealand.439105/

I am now considering my next build and have come to the conclusion that I would like to build & modernise an Europa for daily driving and also for some track day fun .

By modernise I mean upgrade to a ECU / EFI engine , modern brakes and suspension etc .. but still keep the overall look of the car the same .. think the Europa on Overhauling , but not so many finicky mods .. it will be more “raw” for want of a better word .

As you can imagine Europas are not that common here in NZ , but I am currently looking at this 72 TC for sale https://www.trademe.co.nz/a/motors/specialist-cars/competition-cars/listing/2904690162?bof=kuPi4IFs

Based on what I am planning I do not need to start with a road legal car as here in NZ this build will need to be basically a scratch build as I plan to make so many mods to the running gear etc that it will need to pass a new vehicle compliance test .. which in itself is a fairly detailed procedure.

At this stage , based on research done everything looks achievable but it would be good to get input from forum members as to the suitability of the car I am looking at , any thoughts on engine swaps...I am leaning towards a Honda K20 engine as I have good working knowledge and plenty of spares from previous build ... but any suggestions welcome.

The TC has a Spyder chassis and I guess will need modifications to run a higher HP motor .. I tried to contact Spyder but no luck so far , so any info regarding this would be appreciated ... also any info on known suspension and brake mods would be helpful .

Thanks in advance for any help offered ... Barry

[Sandyman]

 , Barry. I have found that Spyder is very slow in replying to e-mails. I recently put a Spyder chassis under my S2. The chassis is well built and seems strong enough to handle whatever power you choose. Stiffer than stock chassis and more adjustable suspension. Good luck getting that car.
Sandy

[literarymadness]

  Am I assuming correctly that the $8,000 price is NZ dollars which is about $5800 US.

[BDA]

   Barry!!

That Europa looks like you have a good candidate for a build! I don’t know anything about that Honda engine. A common swap is the Ford Zetec and many people keep the EFI. On the other hand, Richard Winter at Banks in England has done a lot of interesting swaps (as well as development of some nice mods) for the Europa. He might be an interesting person to talk to!

[JR73]

 
Hi Barry,
Have been responding to your thread on the groups page, I’m sure you have already figured out from the responses so far that all you wish to do is possible to purchase from multiple sources and in a number of different ways (longitudinally or transversely mounted!), there really are an almost endless number of options as far as spec is concerned - which makes it difficult to give you an idea of what it would cost for a complete vehicle...

I doubt that you would need to modify the Spyder chassis listed with the TC you are looking at in order to cope with more than 200bhp, you definitely wouldn’t have to modify a Banks tubular chassis to cope with over 200bhp.

One thing I would recommend is that you consider the weight of the finished car, from my own experience there is quite a difference in the way a 700kg Europa drives in comparison to a 650kg one for example (class weights for race cars that I was involved with).

Would be interesting to follow your build thread on here.

Jon

[Bcal]

Am I assuming correctly that the $8,000 price is NZ dollars which is about $5800 US.

Correct ... NZD ... as you can see our currency is not worth much !!
Keep in mind ..no engine gearbox etc .. and a number of parts missing .

[Yellowbelly]

Hi Barry,

Loved the Elise build thread. If you message me your contact details I am happy to send you details of my project along similar lines to what you are wanting to do. I am fitting a well modified K Series from and Elise with all modern running gear, interior etc.

[Bainford]

Welcome to the forum, Bcal. Looking forward to seeing your project get underway. Cheers 

[Sander_Sorok_40]

Response to Bcal:

Great project! You have a very similar idea to what I have.

The TC you posted looks good. A great person to talk to would be John Pels. He used to make a great adapter kit for the 4AGE to the NG or 336 trans. He is trying to make the kit again since a few people have recently contacted him about it. This kit will not work with the 365 trans in the TC, but luckily that TC doesn't have one anyway haha. I would still contact him about the swap though since he is way more knowledgeable than I am.

For anyone else interested, please message me, and I can share his email with you.

If you are leaning towards a Honda swap, there is a great group on Facebook that may be helpful as well. I can send you the link to that.

The Spyder chassis will definitely handle the higher HP.

Stay fast,

Sander

[Bcal]

Hi Jon
Thanks for the reply here and on the groups page .
I am leaning towards the TC here in NZ .. just that it will remove all the hassle of importing from the UK .. approx $5k in freight and inevitable long lead times to build.. but will try and speak to Banks and see what comes about.
Either way I will have to source a number of body parts etc from the UK or USA.
Agree entirely re pricing .. think of a price and double it usually works about right !! All part of the fun ...or pain !
My projects always ramp up up with higher spec as I get into it.

Very conscious of weight.. I never like to add but aware that weight will increase due to engine and gearbox and also roll cage and possible chassis reinforcing to meet local standards . Will attempt to reduce weight where I can and a lot of attention will be spent on the weight splits.
I found in my Elise that extra power nullifys weight to a certain degree , it then becomes how the weight is split and the set up of the suspension etc .

Hi Barry,
Have been responding to your thread on the groups page, I’m sure you have already figured out from the responses so far that all you wish to do is possible to purchase from multiple sources and in a number of different ways (longitudinally or transversely mounted!), there really are an almost endless number of options as far as spec is concerned - which makes it difficult to give you an idea of what it would cost for a complete vehicle...

I doubt that you would need to modify the Spyder chassis listed with the TC you are looking at in order to cope with more than 200bhp, you definitely wouldn’t have to modify a Banks tubular chassis to cope with over 200bhp.

One thing I would recommend is that you consider the weight of the finished car, from my own experience there is quite a difference in the way a 700kg Europa drives in comparison to a 650kg one for example (class weights for race cars that I was involved with).

Would be interesting to follow your build thread on here.

Jon

[Bcal]

Thanks for the reply.. yes they seem to be very slow , but have given them the benefit of the doubt with holiday season and Covid .
The chassis does look strong enough and with the addition of a roll cage it should easily meet the required spec here in NZ.. which is very stringent.

, Barry. I have found that Spyder is very slow in replying to e-mails. I recently put a Spyder chassis under my S2. The chassis is well built and seems strong enough to handle whatever power you choose. Stiffer than stock chassis and more adjustable suspension. Good luck getting that car.
Sandy

[Bcal]

I have been trying to contact Banks to discuss but unfortunately no luck .. but will try again next week.
I have heard good things about the Zetec and it looks like the goods .
Keen to use the K20 as i have a lot of experience with this engine , not to mention a lot of spare parts from previous builds.

But will keep and open mind and see what develops.

  Barry!!

That Europa looks like you have a good candidate for a build! I don’t know anything about that Honda engine. A common swap is the Ford Zetec and many people keep the EFI. On the other hand, Richard Winter at Banks in England has done a lot of interesting swaps (as well as development of some nice mods) for the Europa. He might be an interesting person to talk to!

[Bcal]

Thanks for the reply and email info .. will get in contact with John.
I have not really given the 4AGE much consideration , but it is a popular engine and is well respected by many.
I had a Lotus 2-11 that ran the later model 2ZZ engine with a SC but found that to be "fragile" motor when used on the track.
https://www.lotustalk.com/threads/2-11-project.339234/#post-4488482

Thanks re K20 group on facebook will have a look.

Response to Bcal:

Great project! You have a very similar idea to what I have.

The TC you posted looks good. A great person to talk to would be John Pels. He used to make a great adapter kit for the 4AGE to the NG or 336 trans. He is trying to make the kit again since a few people have recently contacted him about it. This kit will not work with the 365 trans in the TC, but luckily that TC doesn't have one anyway haha. I would still contact him about the swap though since he is way more knowledgeable than I am.

For anyone else interested, please message me, and I can share his email with you.

If you are leaning towards a Honda swap, there is a great group on Facebook that may be helpful as well. I can send you the link to that.

The Spyder chassis will definitely handle the higher HP.

Stay fast,

Sander

[BDA]

About contacting Richard at Banks, I would say to call him and not even try email. Of course, on the other side of the world, you may have to stay up late to get him!

[JR73]

Hi Jon
Thanks for the reply here and on the groups page .
I am leaning towards the TC here in NZ .. just that it will remove all the hassle of importing from the UK .. approx $5k in freight and inevitable long lead times to build.. but will try and speak to Banks and see what comes about.
Either way I will have to source a number of body parts etc from the UK or USA.
Agree entirely re pricing .. think of a price and double it usually works about right !! All part of the fun ...or pain !
My projects always ramp up up with higher spec as I get into it.

Very conscious of weight.. I never like to add but aware that weight will increase due to engine and gearbox and also roll cage and possible chassis reinforcing to meet local standards . Will attempt to reduce weight where I can and a lot of attention will be spent on the weight splits.
I found in my Elise that extra power nullifys weight to a certain degree , it then becomes how the weight is split and the set up of the suspension etc .

I totally understand the logistics and costs that being in NZ adds, makes sense to work with what is available locally. - I’m only about 30 mins from Banks and Lotus stuff is pretty easy to source in the UK for obvious reasons, getting a response from some of them is still difficult though!

I originally set out to build a useable road car with the common problem areas addressed, it snowballed somewhat...

Somewhere in amongst the thread on my car there is a bit more on the differences of the rear suspension set ups etc, page 3 if you have the time. - all about having as much information as possible right?!

http://www.lotuseuropa.org/LotusForum/index.php?topic=2571.0

Keep us posted on what you end up doing, it will be interesting to see.