Author Topic: The revival of 650143R, 1970 with TS.  (Read 50947 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline gideon

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Joined: Dec 2017
  • Location: Northern NJ
  • Posts: 553
Re: The revival of 650143R, 1970 with TS.
« Reply #450 on: Wednesday,March 22, 2023, 07:27:29 AM »
I believe that's a Wilwood "60 Degree Mount Pedal" balance bar unit.

https://www.wilwood.com/Pedals/PedalProd?itemno=340-4630

This unit increases the mechanical leverage of the brake pedal by about 1.5:1, so you'd have to reduce the hydraulic leverage to compensate. 



 

Offline Richard48Y

  • Super Member
  • *******
  • Joined: Oct 2020
  • Location: No. Nevada
  • Posts: 1,641
Re: The revival of 650143R, 1970 with TS.
« Reply #451 on: Wednesday,March 22, 2023, 10:47:24 AM »
I agree that it is the same concept but not a Wilwood unit.
It looks home made and the mount has a nasty weld to the frame head.
I am determined to come up with a clean install.
Not snowing today so it may be warm enough to work on my CAD in the shop.

Offline Richard48Y

  • Super Member
  • *******
  • Joined: Oct 2020
  • Location: No. Nevada
  • Posts: 1,641
Re: The revival of 650143R, 1970 with TS.
« Reply #452 on: Wednesday,March 22, 2023, 02:27:42 PM »
I think I may have the mechanical portion figured out.
Similar to the factory pivot lever, but longer, with the MC's taking their motion from the middle of the bar.
Need to look under the other S2 to confirm how much room is available WITH the spare tire in place.
Somewhere on this forum I recall a detailed post on determining MC sizing.
Ideally the bias bar would need no or very little adjustment.
That may mean two different MC sizes.

Offline gideon

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Joined: Dec 2017
  • Location: Northern NJ
  • Posts: 553
Re: The revival of 650143R, 1970 with TS.
« Reply #453 on: Wednesday,March 22, 2023, 04:52:56 PM »
I agree that it is the same concept but not a Wilwood unit.
It looks home made and the mount has a nasty weld to the frame head.

The way the unit is mounted is home made, but the unit matches the Wilwood part in all visible details.  Take a look at the drawings.  The grooves under the master cylinders, the "ears" holding the pivot pin, the angle of the master cylinders, the location of the mounting holes - they all match.  There's too much matching detail for it to be a coincidence.

I rest my case, M'lud.







Offline Richard48Y

  • Super Member
  • *******
  • Joined: Oct 2020
  • Location: No. Nevada
  • Posts: 1,641
Re: The revival of 650143R, 1970 with TS.
« Reply #454 on: Wednesday,March 22, 2023, 05:12:40 PM »
You may be correct.
If I knew where the pic originated there may be additional views.
In any case the concept I am working with for now is to combine the Wilwood design concept with the original S2 off-set pedal/MC mount.
A horizontal rather than vertical actuating bar.
I have begun a CAD model.
Somewhat need to know MC's bore sizes in order to confirm what is available and dimensions.
Stock calipers at the front for now and VW Scirocco at the rear.

Offline Richard48Y

  • Super Member
  • *******
  • Joined: Oct 2020
  • Location: No. Nevada
  • Posts: 1,641
Re: The revival of 650143R, 1970 with TS.
« Reply #455 on: Wednesday,March 22, 2023, 06:51:40 PM »
Looking at TILTON compact MC's.
Unable to open RAR files so not certain of actual dimensions.


Offline Richard48Y

  • Super Member
  • *******
  • Joined: Oct 2020
  • Location: No. Nevada
  • Posts: 1,641
Re: The revival of 650143R, 1970 with TS.
« Reply #456 on: Wednesday,March 22, 2023, 07:34:08 PM »
Did some reading, tried some math, but do not yet have all the necessary figures for calculations.  :headbanger:
I have realized that exactly where each component pivots in relation to the others will make a big difference in pedal ratio and feel.
I think I will mock up half and three-quarter distance versions of the bar.
See horrid illustration below. View facing the frame head from the front.
Left end is the link from the pedal, right end is the fixed pivot point.
Center is where the floating pivot bar to the MC's attaches.
I am expecting that the three-quarter would give me a more natural feel as it reduces the added pedal ratio. (Unless that is backward?)
A lot of this effort revolves around dealing with the offset of the brake pedal in relation to the MC mount. Making it two MC's adds some complexity.

O----O----O
O-O-------O

It would seem that with some care boosters should never have been needed.

EDIT: After playing about with a ruler, cardboard, and scissors, it is clear only the second configuration stands a chance.
And the pedal pivot point moves very near the balance bar pivot point.
I had hoped it might be possible to shorten it all up as well, no way.
I will need the shortest MC's possible. Tilton 75's at 3.1" plus a banjo fitting are still a little shorter than the original Girling. $102.00 Each for the full kit.
« Last Edit: Wednesday,March 22, 2023, 10:57:07 PM by Richard48Y »

Offline Richard48Y

  • Super Member
  • *******
  • Joined: Oct 2020
  • Location: No. Nevada
  • Posts: 1,641
Re: The revival of 650143R, 1970 with TS.
« Reply #457 on: Wednesday,March 22, 2023, 09:14:12 PM »
Ouch!
My crank regrind is done, $420.00
New are "Only" $600.00 and shipping.
This came in about $100.00 higher than expected and I do not know why yet.
EDIT: Ah, additional labor as I had the machine shop measure the actual bearings in the block and rods.
Plus shipping x2 is just nuts now.

I think anyone putting off a restoration needs to jump on it ASAP as prices and parts availability will only get worse.
« Last Edit: Wednesday,March 22, 2023, 11:27:56 PM by Richard48Y »

Offline Richard48Y

  • Super Member
  • *******
  • Joined: Oct 2020
  • Location: No. Nevada
  • Posts: 1,641
Re: The revival of 650143R, 1970 with TS.
« Reply #458 on: Friday,March 24, 2023, 09:21:48 PM »
Made minor progress on my rear disc brake conversion.
Chucked the new rear hubs in the lathe and turned them down to fit the MGF rotors as suggested by Sig Sleurs.
Since I used a lathe the rotors register on the hubs to assure concentricity if the studs do not.
So far it looks like the VW calipers will not clear Cosmic's, not sure about my other wheels.
I am going to spin up a dummy outer bearing so that I do not have to abuse the new ones.
With that done I will be able to mock it all up using the junk parts.  :)
If the VW calipers do not work out other alternatives should be available using the same rotors.


Offline TurboFource

  • Super Member
  • *******
  • Joined: Sep 2019
  • Location: Maryland
  • Posts: 2,180
Re: The revival of 650143R, 1970 with TS.
« Reply #459 on: Saturday,March 25, 2023, 04:21:07 AM »
 :)
The more I do the more I find I need to do....remember your ABC’s …anything but chinesium!

Offline Richard48Y

  • Super Member
  • *******
  • Joined: Oct 2020
  • Location: No. Nevada
  • Posts: 1,641
Re: The revival of 650143R, 1970 with TS.
« Reply #460 on: Wednesday,March 29, 2023, 07:30:29 PM »
Picked up my freshly ground crankshaft today.  :)
It sure makes the prior condition seem ugly.
Now I am going to have to get my cam and head issues resolved.

Offline Richard48Y

  • Super Member
  • *******
  • Joined: Oct 2020
  • Location: No. Nevada
  • Posts: 1,641
Re: The revival of 650143R, 1970 with TS.
« Reply #461 on: Saturday,April 01, 2023, 08:39:45 PM »
Unable to do engine or suspension work today so I put some time into bodywork.
There will be bodywork to do for at least the rest of the year.  ::)
Bonnet is nearly ready to begin repairing the cracks I ground out previously.
Actually not in too bad of shape despite at least one prior repair.

Engine cover is going to be the bigger chore.
For some unknown reason a former owner had glued in a piece of wood and open cell foam at the back, filling the transition area from horizontal to vertical.
Then they put a couple of layers of overly resin-rich cloth over that.
I had tried to buy another rear cover rather than have to deal with the mess.
But thanks to poor bonding and a good selection of power tools cleaning it up was not all that bad.
I will be adding a layer of chopped strand mat to restore the correct look and add a bit of strength.
The bodge I removed did not actually hurt anything except that it made the area strong at the expense of being ugly and heavy.

Where I have lucked out is that I have no cracks where the screens/vents were attached to the cover.  :)

Offline Richard48Y

  • Super Member
  • *******
  • Joined: Oct 2020
  • Location: No. Nevada
  • Posts: 1,641
Re: The revival of 650143R, 1970 with TS.
« Reply #462 on: Wednesday,April 12, 2023, 07:00:34 PM »
My minor win of the day was fabricating a side mounted head to hold the Renault block on an engine stand.

My loss was paying $59.00 for a quart of fiberglass resin.
I will order on-line next time.
Even with shipping the paint shop is overpriced.
At least I may now get serious in repairing the Red S2.

Offline Richard48Y

  • Super Member
  • *******
  • Joined: Oct 2020
  • Location: No. Nevada
  • Posts: 1,641
Re: The revival of 650143R, 1970 with TS.
« Reply #463 on: Saturday,April 15, 2023, 08:33:38 PM »
Warm days at last!
Happy to finally be applying epoxy and 'glass to repair my spider cracks and voids.
I am using medium speed hardener and think that was the right choice as it gives me fairly long working time.
I do need to have a lot more area prepped next time or find much smaller measuring cups.
Looks like I will be working on the bonnet and boot top surface to side join lines pretty much all around.
Buying more blasting soda in the morning, the cheap HF unit does not allow me to adjust the flow as well as I would like.

Question, I see area's where paint and primer have flaked off down to the gelcoat.
Which primer is adhering best these days?
Paint is to be simple single stage acrylic enamel.
« Last Edit: Sunday,April 16, 2023, 07:56:04 AM by Richard48Y »

Offline Bryan Boyle

  • Super Member
  • *******
  • Joined: Feb 2022
  • Location: Morrisville PA
  • Posts: 800
  • 1974 Europa JPS #142 3291R
    • Lotus Europa Collection
Re: The revival of 650143R, 1970 with TS.
« Reply #464 on: Sunday,April 16, 2023, 05:44:41 AM »
***DELETIA***
Which primer is adhering best these days?
Paint is to be simple single stage acrylic enamel.

I had extremely good luck (as did a number of folks over on the europa listserv) with Duratec primer.

https://www.fibreglast.com/product/Duratec_Gray_Surfacing_Primer_1041

Easy to sand...I've heard tell that some folks have even polished it to a shine...even though they talk about it being a plug mold primer...using this over a good body prep, the paint just laid down (over a single sealer coat) and flowed properly, and, from what I can tell from photos, 14 years after application, still has no spider cracks or imperfections or fiber print-through. 

So much so, that is the only primer my shop uses now, and they say is compatable with the topcoat systems they're using (Axalta at the low end, Glasurit at the high end)

Bryan Boyle
Morrisville PA
Commercial Pilot/CFII/FAA Safety Team
Amateur Extra Class Operator & FCC Volunteer Examiner
Currently working on 3291R, ex 444R, 693R, 65/2163, 004R, 65/2678
http://www.lotuseuropa.us for mirror of lotus-europa.com manual site.