The revival of 650143R, 1970 with TS.

[GavinT]

Re your intake manifold, I recall some engines have that mounting stud in a different place but I can't remember why that is.
I think you need those Ti spring retainers . .   

[Richard48Y]

Cannot "Hot-Tank" aluminum even if such were available around here, and there are no Cold-Tank facilities either.

So I spent the whole day cleaning my block.
Solvent and brushes, solvent and pipe-cleaners, then pressure washed.
Still unhappy with the amount of brown mineral coating on the water jacket so tried the soda blaster.
That removed about a third of it, that mineral scale is hard stuff.
Then I remembered my air powered scale removing tool.
It worked pretty well, only traces of the scale remain.
Then power washed it again and blew out all the holes and passages.
Now clean enough to check cylinder heights.
I will wash it again before final assembly.

Also determined that the head-gasket I have is probably correct except that it is too small in diameter for this big bore kit.
My shopping list is growing.

[Richard48Y]

"Nothing can be simple".
Tried to put one of the new sleeves into the block.
Very tight fit, hard to remove from even half-way down.
Well Duh, I should measure the old ones first. 
The old drop right in, a little loose actually.
The difference in Dia. is .0018"-.0020".
Another specification to look for, how tight are they supposed to be?
I would assume (Oh THAT word!) a snug slip-fit to be correct?
Any actual movement seems bad, but pounding them in and out seems REALLY bad.
Pretty sure I can massage just a hair off using the lathe.
I am going to number them, then I will hand-fit each one.
Correct plan?

[jbcollier]

The early shimmed sleeves had 82mm spigots and later 82.5mm.  I thought this applied only to 1470 engines.

[Richard48Y]

Difference of .051mm between sets.
82.4810mm is just a bit tight.
82.4306mm are just a bit loose.
I expect the issue is related to a couple of decades passing and the cylinders not being made to my specific block.
I would work on this tonight but it's COLD in the shop and that would throw off my fitting efforts.

The next argument gets to be the shims.
Paper came with the cylinders but some folk insist they are junk and should be replaced by steel shims and gasket sealer.
Shims are narrow so I have no convenient way to make them from steel.
I have not heard of a source for steel shims.

[Richard48Y]

Ok, I've just been through all three of the manuals I have.
Lotus, Haynes, and Renault.
None of them give any description for how loose/tight the sleeves should be in the block. So it is assumed they are always correct. 
Description from other rebuilds often refer to sleeves falling out when disassembling.
So when it is warmer tomorrow I will try to remove about .001" and see how they fit.
I do not want to have to fight them but I think I would be happy with no side play either.

[GavinT]

Dunno Richard.
In my limited experience, they've all been pretty consistent. They usually go in as a snug push fit because we need to juggle them around to get the protrusion even.

With that said, a mate is currently commissioning a new engine and he said the other night that a couple of sleeves were rejected as being too loose. And that's on a 1596 retail piston/liner kit probably produced in the 90's.

Hmmm . . paper/velum seals seem to work fine for most folks.
If you're referring to Frans, I believe he's using a copper head gasket together with those protruding rings machined into the top face of the liners. That's a full race engine and my guess is he's looking to achieve tighter control over head clamping.

[jbcollier]

Is the block cold as you describe you garage as very cold.  Maybe bring the block up to actual room temperature (70+°) before doing any machining.

[TurboFource]

Aluminum has double the thermal expansion and contraction of steel... I think JB has a valid point!

[Richard48Y]

About 55º F. when I was trying this.
Thinking the block is coming inside today, so 68º.
This would be less of an issue if the sleeves did not have to go in and out several times for adjustment.
At least with this bore the pistons may be fit from the top.

I figured out a couple of ways to make good steel shims but no longer have an EDM machine.
There are other ways but the time needed to make tooling gets ridiculous.

[Richard48Y]

Ok, this is now an official Kitchen Table build. 

At 70º+ everything goes together normally.
My liners without shims are dead flat with the top of the block.
Naturally no guide to shim thickness was included but they are color coded.
White seems the thinnest, orange and black seem to be the same but I am sure they are not.
Someone commented that they "Just use all three".
Lotus wants more protrusion than Renault, .005" - .0075".
I know I saw the color code somewhere but cannot seem to find it now.
Going to see about a more solid setup for my dial indicator.

[Richard48Y]

Cylinders shimmed!
.007" to .008", I do not see getting any closer than that.
Also ordered my fine grit ball-hone today.
Once I have touched up the bores I will be able to measure and adjust ring gaps.
Need to get the odd bits ordered for assembly.
Copper seals, flywheel lock tab, correct head gasket, bearings.....

[Richard48Y]

"Nothing can be easy-2"
Trying to measure my crank journals.
Haynes manual gives specs but not tolerance for out of round.
Also no bearing clearance.
Lotus book seems to have the same information.
I need to replace my antique 2"-3" Mic.
As near as I can read it I have .0007 to .0013 wear depending on where I measure.
Getting a crank ground .010" undersize is now a real pain.
The best guys are all dying or retiring, waiting for a new hip, etc.
Younger guys are not taking up the business as the bulk of work is being obsoleted with new Chinese replacement parts.
Not sure I want to trust a shop that is high production SBC/SBF oriented.
There has to be someone good who is not backed up six months, right?

[jbcollier]

Here's the 807 engine spec section of my much worn R17 manual:









807-12 spec from a R17G, Bosch D-Jet, Euro spec

[jbcollier]

Here's the 807-20 engine spec section of my R12G manual: