Author Topic: The revival of 650143R, 1970 with TS.  (Read 50884 times)

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Offline Richard48Y

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Re: The revival of 650143R, 1970 with TS.
« Reply #345 on: Wednesday,December 28, 2022, 07:25:36 PM »
Ponied up for two quarts of gloss black POR-15 and a can of 3M 08852 Cavity Wax Plus for inside the chassis.
Also got the extended nozzle kit for the wax.
This wax should be excellent for inside the back-bone and frame head once all other efforts are complete.

Offline Richard48Y

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Re: The revival of 650143R, 1970 with TS.
« Reply #346 on: Friday,January 06, 2023, 02:36:53 PM »
Five gallons of Holdtight 102 arrived today.
I may now rinse soda-blasting properly.  :D
Mix is 100-1 to 50-1 so this should be enough for more than one car.

Offline Richard48Y

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Re: The revival of 650143R, 1970 with TS.
« Reply #347 on: Monday,January 09, 2023, 09:52:58 AM »
Musing on buying a Spydercars frame head to replace what I have.
I can remove most of the rust but know I can never get it all.  :headbanger:

Offline Richard48Y

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Re: The revival of 650143R, 1970 with TS.
« Reply #348 on: Friday,January 13, 2023, 03:48:49 PM »
Spidercars wants to know if I am buying the frame head and they have one in stock.
I need a couple more days to answer that as I am still deciding to repair mine or not.

Delta Cams called, my cam is ready.
Not sure what they did for the grind.
I had thought we were going to discuss it and make a decision after the welding was done.
But they have already ground it to "Europa Gordini Specification", whatever that is.
I will get a cam card with it so specs will not be a mystery.
Looking like it will probably be a bit milder than I had hoped for.
Only $108.00 so probably the only inexpensive item on the entire car.

Offline gideon

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Re: The revival of 650143R, 1970 with TS.
« Reply #349 on: Sunday,January 15, 2023, 09:09:52 AM »
If the you buy the frame piece from Spyder how will you ensure you have it aligned properly before welding?

Offline Richard48Y

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Re: The revival of 650143R, 1970 with TS.
« Reply #350 on: Sunday,January 15, 2023, 09:23:59 AM »
I have a 4'x10' flat steel build table.
I also have the specifications from the manual.
So it becomes a simple  matter of measurements before welding.

Offline Richard48Y

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Re: The revival of 650143R, 1970 with TS.
« Reply #351 on: Sunday,January 15, 2023, 07:36:57 PM »
I think I just committed to buying a new frame head. :headbanger:
The remaining scale between layers and slight warping as a result leaves me really wanting new metal.
There is a decent chassis for sale from another member but it is a long trip so about the same cost when done, plus the work of removing surface rust.
With a new frame head, I will have all NEW steel up front.
I will treat it for rust as the original should have been if cars of the day were not assumed to be disposable.

Offline jbcollier

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Re: The revival of 650143R, 1970 with TS.
« Reply #352 on: Sunday,January 15, 2023, 07:42:06 PM »
Good choice!

Offline Richard48Y

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Re: The revival of 650143R, 1970 with TS.
« Reply #353 on: Sunday,January 15, 2023, 07:54:01 PM »
Yaaaa, guess which way the exchange rate has gone while I hesitated.
Total about $1,600.00 plus whatever the US Gov. nails me for "Duty", so much for escaping the VAT.  :-X

Offline Richard48Y

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Re: The revival of 650143R, 1970 with TS.
« Reply #354 on: Monday,January 16, 2023, 09:07:43 AM »
Got pics from Spydercars this morning.
As soon as I get the invoice the new frame head will be purchased.
It is their upgraded design which appears stronger and less prone to rusting from the inside out.
It also appears to make access to the steering u-joint much simpler.

I am also following up with the on-line metal shop from another thread.
I have a lathe and welders so anyone needing an original design replacement frame head at less than half the cost of the Spydercars piece let me know.
Not sure of lead time yet.


Offline Richard48Y

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Re: The revival of 650143R, 1970 with TS.
« Reply #355 on: Tuesday,January 17, 2023, 05:34:57 PM »
Got my cam back today.
Not sure what I actually got for the grind, so far as I know there is no such thing as a Lotus Gordini grind.
I had expected to an agreement on what the grind was to be before it was done.
I sent specs for discussion but had no communication until Delta called to say it was ready.
The heel relief we had discussed was not done, so I guess I will have to do it.
I think I have to call them to confirm the lobes are IE, IE, as the TS head requires.
EI, IE wedge head pattern would really infuriate me as that would require doing it over again.

Pic of the cam card below, I never really learned to make heads or tails of such specs.
Anyone who can interpret this for me please help.

Overlap is 101.4


Offline Richard48Y

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Re: The revival of 650143R, 1970 with TS.
« Reply #356 on: Tuesday,January 17, 2023, 10:28:08 PM »
Decided to try using a caliper to check the lobe order as Ex. is shorter.
It seems the order is correct but the base circle and lift vary widely.
I suppose that might be expected of a reground cam.
Clearly a caliper or Mic. are not the best way to check this.
I will have to set up some Vee blocks and a dial indicator.
I've sent the specs to Salv Sacco for his input.

I am also going to try to figure out the best way to relieve the heel for lifter clearance. Stock there is an issue of the lifter foot rubbing the blank.
« Last Edit: Tuesday,January 17, 2023, 10:34:55 PM by Richard48Y »

Offline Richard48Y

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Re: The revival of 650143R, 1970 with TS.
« Reply #357 on: Wednesday,January 18, 2023, 12:53:20 PM »
Salv says this cam grind is a bit extreme with valve lift at .46655" - 11.85mm
I will probably send it back to be tamed a bit even if I have to pay again.
As I recall 10mm valve lift is thought to be the limit for a street car?

Welded the frame patches in, which confirmed how thin the surrounding steel is.
Without a copper backer avoiding blow-through was hard.
The electrolysis bath also revealed addition rust-through near the drivers side lower fulcrum pin.
The electrolysis did not remove all the heavy scale but did break it up and soften it.
Tapping on the sheetmetal released a lot of scale, but scale is missing steel.  :(

I've sent Spydercars another email asking for an invoice so that I may pay before the exchange rate gets even worse.

Offline jbcollier

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Re: The revival of 650143R, 1970 with TS.
« Reply #358 on: Wednesday,January 18, 2023, 04:10:07 PM »
I sent my cam to Salv to be reground.  I described what I wanted and he picked the grind.  Worked beautifully.

Offline Richard48Y

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Re: The revival of 650143R, 1970 with TS.
« Reply #359 on: Wednesday,January 18, 2023, 04:44:29 PM »
Really should not have to send a cam overseas for grinding, the postage would be ridiculous.
I have to find my notes and contact Delta in the morning.