TC Stopped While Running

[surypap3]

Looking for some ideas. Car was idling after 10 min on the road. Just cut off. I have gas running to the carbs. No spark at the wires or coil. Changed to a Pertronix coil and SS ignition module (a kit I had planned to install). Hooked module red to + on the coil, and black wire to - side of the coil. Swapped rotors, cap and wires. I have 12v at the + side of coil when ignition is on (run position). Tried to start and still no spark at coil or sparkplug wires. What other things could be doing this? Perhaps when turning the key to start, I lose 12v to coil??? Did not check this. Trying to get this running to teach grandson how to drive when visiting this 4th. Thoughts please!

[Kendo]

Some Pertronix SS modules would burn out if the key was left on, but the engine stopped.

Given three days to go, can you put the points back in?

(BTW, kudos for introducing your grand kid to the Europa.)

[BDA]

I tend to think the Pertronix could be giving you the problem. If you used the old, original Pertronix, it might have gotten fried by leaving the ignition on too long as Kendo says. If you have the more recent Pertronix II or Pertronix III, that shouldn't be what happened because it's protected from burning out after extended periods with the ignition on.

Do you have solid high tension wires? Pertronix requires resistance wires. I did run mine for some time with stainless steel wires until I learned about the requirement for resistance wires so I'm hoping it didn't cause damage that might rear its ugly head later. Pertronix doesn't sell a wire sets for the TC but you should be able to make your own from their wires. Remember that the distributor cap only takes 7mm wires.

[surfguitar58]

Pertronix doesn't sell a wire sets for the TC but you should be able to make your own from their wires. Remember that the distributor cap only takes 7mm wires.

RDEnt.com sells TC wires for Pertronix.
t

[jbcollier]

What ignition system did you have at the start?  Points?  Older Pertronix?  Something else?

What is an "SS ignition module"?

Which Pertronix coil?  3 ohm?

How are you checking for spark?  Are you holding the coil wire end from the distributor cap a 1/4" from a metal part of the engine and then engaging the starter?

You put on the following NEW parts to no effect?  Cap, rotor, ignition wires, ignition module, coil?

[SilverBeast]

My guess is SS = Solid State. It usually means you replaced something mechanical with an alternative with no moving parts.

[jbcollier]

There are a number on the market.  Some have different coil requirements than others.

[surypap3]

Some Pertronix SS modules would burn out if the key was left on, but the engine stopped.

Given three days to go, can you put the points back in?

(BTW, kudos for introducing your grand kid to the Europa.)

The Pertronix went in to address the issue. I had points in when it stopped. So the module is brand new. Keep the ideas coming. I spent the day swapping parts and can figure this out. Thx

[surypap3]

I tend to think the Pertronix could be giving you the problem. If you used the old, original Pertronix, it might have gotten fried by leaving the ignition on too long as Kendo says. If you have the more recent Pertronix II or Pertronix III, that shouldn't be what happened because it's protected from burning out after extended periods with the ignition on.

Do you have solid high tension wires? Pertronix requires resistance wires. I did run mine for some time with stainless steel wires until I learned about the requirement for resistance wires so I'm hoping it didn't cause damage that might rear its ugly head later. Pertronix doesn't sell a wire sets for the TC but you should be able to make your own from their wires. Remember that the distributor cap only takes 7mm wires.

Mine is an older but new Pertronix kit. Bought it years ago and never installed until this breakdown. But again the car stopped with the points setup, not the Pertronix. I'll have to look into the resistance thing for the future.

[surypap3]

Pertronix doesn't sell a wire sets for the TC but you should be able to make your own from their wires. Remember that the distributor cap only takes 7mm wires.

RDEnt.com sells TC wires for Pertronix.
t

Thank you! Ray was helping me think thru this today.

[surypap3]

What ignition system did you have at the start?  Points?  Older Pertronix?  Something else?

What is an "SS ignition module"?

Which Pertronix coil?  3 ohm?

How are you checking for spark?  Are you holding the coil wire end from the distributor cap a 1/4" from a metal part of the engine and then engaging the starter?

You put on the following NEW parts to no effect?  Cap, rotor, ignition wires, ignition module, coil?

The points (traditional) setup was in the distributor when it stopped. SS=solid state. Maybe not a good descriptor but was referring to the Pertronix module. The Coil is also Pertronix. It measured roughly 3.8 ohms for the primary and 9.4k for the secondary. BTW, the old coil tested at 1.6 ohms and 11.2k ohms for the secondary. Swapped coil, points to Pertonix, wires, cap, rotor and plugs are 2 weeks old. Connected the Pertronix module red to the + side of coil and black to - side.

I get 12v to + side of coil when ignition is in run position and when starting the + side of coil had power (test light at this time).

I am puzzled. Ignition switch? Gonna swap that tomorrow. Running out of ideas

[SENC]

Sounds like your original coil was designed for a ballast resistor between it and the ignition.  Did you remove the ballast resistor when installing the new coil and pertronix distributor?  You're getting 12v at the +/switch side so the resistor is getting bypassed appropriately, I think, if still installed.  What are you getting on the -/CB side?

[TurboFource]

Is the rotor actually turning? It won't throw sparks if the distributor doesn't turn....long shot but easy to check.

I once bought a Fairmont for $100 because they couldn't' figure out why it wasn't throwing a spark...I figured out it needed a $6 timing belt and the distributor wasn't turning😎    Drove the car for a couple of years and sold it for $700

[jbcollier]

A TC’s distributor doesn’t stop turning without there being great unhappiness.  Still worth checking.  Cap off, crank the engine and see.

If that’s not it — and I hope it isn’t — then:

Low impedance coil means high current.  The points may have burnt.  Most common fail point is the condenser.  Also, the point’s plate ground wire can fail.  Yes, it all in what you took out but you may find it useful if you do what I recommend next...

Put the points back in.  Resolve the issue.  Then decide whether to change the ignition wholesale.  Switching to another system just makes diagnosing the original problem more difgicult.  The reason I suggest this is that Pertronix is usually very reliable.  If you are not getting spark from the coil, the unit is most likely toast.

[surypap3]

Sounds like your original coil was designed for a ballast resistor between it and the ignition.  Did you remove the ballast resistor when installing the new coil and pertronix distributor?  You're getting 12v at the +/switch side so the resistor is getting bypassed appropriately, I think, if still installed.  What are you getting on the -/CB side?

I don't know what to say about the ballast resistor. I have seen them on Europa firewalls to the right of the engine but there is not one there for mine. Has been running as configured since 2000. Please tell me what and how I should measure the -/CB side. What does that wire there do? My distributor wire was connected on the + side. Thanks