365 Transmission Output Shaft Seals Replacement

[surypap3]

I did a couple quick searches looking for DIY instructions on replacing the output shaft seals on a 365 transmission. Does any one have a narrative on the process?

[BDA]

  surypap3!

Sorry I can't help you with your seals. I think someone can probably either explain it or point to a post that explains it.

[jbcollier]

Is your transaxle quiet and whine free?  No off-throttle noises either?

[surypap3]

Quiet and performs well. However, I am now experiencing inability to shift into reverse. I thought maybe linkage adjustment, but I disconnected the linkage at the shaft and could not manually shift into reverse. Yesterday was the first day in 5 years the car has been on the road with no prior shifting issue.

[Lotuswins]

Probably the rear linkage u-joint yoke to shaft play.  Check for a loose pin and play on the shaft.  The usual fix is to drill for a near press fit bolt and to slice the yoke in one spot so the bolt can clamp to the shaft, eliminating any play.  These things don't like to shift into reverse, and if you looked at the mechanism inside the box, you would see why.   I think I only get into reverse 50% of the time on the first try.....lol.  Also check for interference with getting the required rotation and fore-aft movement needed for reverse.   
Jerry Rude
4005R

[jbcollier]

If the transaxle is quiet, then you can can the seals in situ if you're careful.  Lots and lots of people futz this job up.  So BE CAREFUL.  The seal nuts also locate the diff carrier and tension its bearings.  There is NO margin for error.  Close is not good enough.

DO ONE AT A TIME!

MARK THE SEAL NUT'S POSITION, count turns (whole and part), carefully note and mark where it becomes free so you start it in the same place, and can return the nut to EXACTLY the same place.

The seal goes in from the inside of the nut.  Light, non-setting, sealer around the outside of the seal and on the seal nut threads.  Light grease on the seal lip.  Replace the inner o-ring as well.  Light grease on the o-ring.  After the seal nut is back in place, make sure the splined, inner seal land pops in place over the o-ring -- not an easy task so make sure it does.  Some people use the half shaft and the weight of the car to do the job.

When you're done carefully shim the driveshaft yokes as well.

[buzzer]

With regard to reverse selection also check the external reverse detent under as plastic cover on the rear of the gearbox. Does it select 5th ok? As the detent works for reverse and 5th.
Also on the seal replacement,  the inner o-ring I dont  think this is available any more.

[jbcollier]

You may need to turn a wheel to get the teeth in align for it to shift into reverse.

[TurboFource]

Remember that reverse on most(all?) manual transmissions has no synchronizer so that the engagement teeth can be aligned with each other and not go into gear, if you put it into first and barely move the car the alignment of those teeth will change and will allow you to engage reverse without grinding gears

[TCS4605R]

Attached is a photo of my U-joint connection to the rear of the 365 transaxle.  I drilled out the hole for a 5/16" bolt and used a hacksaw to cut a slot in the U-joint piece.  By tightening down the bolt, the U-joint is clamped to the transaxle shift shaft thus taking up all play.  I also rebuilt the U-joint replacing the cross shafts and the needle bearings.

Tom
74 TCS-4605R

[literarymadness]

 

[surypap3]

All good feedback … Thanks! WRT the reverse problem, the detent aligns and I do have 5th gear. I have tightened the shift linkage attachment to the trans shaft. There is no slipping with the connection. My connection to the trans shaft uses split pieces with the bolt going thru each and the shaft for tight clapping. Drove the car today hoping that since it sat for 5 years, it may help to get the gear lube hot and flowing. But still no luck. With regards to the seals, they are available and the instructions provided are clear but make me a bit nervous to undertake this task. I know I will also need a special tool to remove the nuts. I may have to contact jbcollier for coaching (if 0k).

[jbcollier]

It's not hard job.  You just can't be casual about it.  Pay attention, make notes and you'll be fine.

[surypap3]

If the transaxle is quiet, then you can can the seals in situ if you're careful.  Lots and lots of people futz this job up.  So BE CAREFUL.  The seal nuts also locate the diff carrier and tension its bearings.  There is NO margin for error.  Close is not good enough.

DO ONE AT A TIME!

MARK THE SEAL NUT'S POSITION, count turns (whole and part), carefully note and mark where it becomes free so you start it in the same place, and can return the nut to EXACTLY the same place.

The seal goes in from the inside of the nut.  Light, non-setting, sealer around the outside of the seal and on the seal nut threads.  Light grease on the seal lip.  Replace the inner o-ring as well.  Light grease on the o-ring.  After the seal nut is back in place, make sure the splined, inner seal land pops in place over the o-ring -- not an easy task so make sure it does.  Some people use the half shaft and the weight of the car to do the job.

When you're done carefully shim the driveshaft yokes as well.

When you say "make sure the splined, inner seal land pops in place over the o-ring", can you clarify that for me? Also, for a "light, non-setting sealer", what would you recommend? Thanks

[jbcollier]

Hylomar Blue:

https://www.amazon.com/Valco-Cincinnati-Hylomar-Gasket-Sealant/dp/B00CFH9GZG/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=hylomar+blue&qid=1592258828&sr=8-1

Permatex Aviation Form-a-Gasket #3

https://www.amazon.com/Permatex-80019-Aviation-Gasket-Sealant/dp/B000HBM3QQ/ref=sr_1_1?crid=PL39XN7DI6DB&dchild=1&keywords=permatex+aviation+form-a-gasket+no.+3&qid=1592258922&sprefix=permeates+aviation%2Caps%2C242&sr=8-1

and others.

The o-ring and the seal land/run/ring can be found here:

http://www.lotus-europa.com/manuals/s1parts/f/f6.htm

o-ring - 46F6140

seal run - 46F6141

The seal run has a groove in its bore for the o-ring.  Takes a fair amount of pressure to get it to "pop" over the o-ring.