New member & Brake master cylinder removal

[JohnW]

  Working on a friend's 69 Europe (LHD) with the 4 speed box, Gordini cross flow head. It has the servoless single circuit brakes. The steering rack was loose, and the master cylinder unbolted, pipes disconnected when we got the car. However, I can't seem to pull the master cylinder out of the bulkhead. It moves 1cm in and out on the bracket studs. The brake pedal has been disconnected, and the fork unscrewed from the pushrod. The rubber dust cover seems to have fallen apart rather than been removed. Another thread mentions "removing the circlip", is there one hiding somewhere? I am wondering why it won't just pull out?

[SilverBeast]

 
A picture might help.

Have you read the removal instructions from the service manual here--》http://www.lotuseuropa.org/images/WorkshopManual/S2_Section_J_-_Braking_System.pdf

It's in section J12 for the S1. It mentions removing a push rod seal cover from inside the car.

Edit 2020 05 25 Typo correction

[SilverBeast]

It looks like an S2 would be the same for single circuit no servo.

The circlip mentioned may be to stop the push rod pulling out of the master  cylinder, there are more details of this in the manual section linked above.

[Grumblebuns]

On the S2s there is an access hole in the center of the front "T" section of the chassis covered by a rubber plug. If your arms are thin enough, you may be able to feel the interference as you pull on the master cylinder. If you can't get your hands in there a mirror and flashlight be helpful.   

[BDA]

I don't know much about S2s, John but I wanted to 

[JohnW]

Thanks for the welcomes and tips! The manual link is great with the only circlip being the one holding in the rod which can't be causing this problem. So I think the issue is just the remains of the rotten rubber boot on the master cylinder catching on the bracket, wedging somehow. I didn't want to pull too hard, if there were other fasteners at work. I will try and cut off the remains of the boot first then give a good tug and push on any bits I can feel sticking out, next time I am near the car.

There seem to be pattern master cylinders available from various Europa specialist suppliers in the UK, priced around £60 which seems a good deal. I can't imagine a seal kit being much cheaper, and there must be a reason why the previous owner was pulling it out!

[SilverBeast]

FYI for future reference all the workshop manuals are linked from the site home page

http://www.lotuseuropa.org/workshop_manual.htm

[jbcollier]

Only buy master cylinders from reputable suppliers.  I prefer the Girling ones myself.  Not cheap but they work every time and never have issues.  As I’m hurtling towards a downhill, decreasing radius, off camber curve, I’d prefer a slightly thinner wallet and confidence in my brakes.

[SwiftDB4]

Your problem is likely the rubber boot on the end of the m.c. I use a slender hook thru the hole in the footwell to pull it off the m.c.
 I have to agree with John. Girling m.c. are the best and worth the price. I tried 2 OBP ones made in the U.K. but both had faulty internal seals and would suck air into the system.

[JohnW]

Only buy master cylinders from reputable suppliers.  I prefer the Girling ones myself.  Not cheap but they work every time and never have issues.  As I’m hurtling towards a downhill, decreasing radius, off camber curve, I’d prefer a slightly thinner wallet and confidence in my brakes.

I completely agree with caution on master cylinders. We have quite a few hills here too . It seems that TRW is the new name for Girling, since taking over Lucas Girling in 1999 (JBCollier pointed out Lockheed as well in another post). Presumably anything with Girling on it though is past it's best already at 20 years old, and will potentially need a new seal kit anyway. All seal kits I see seem to be brander Girling and thus old stock, or unbranded. TRW don't seem to manufacture master cylinders anymore for this car according to their website, although some suppliers should have stock. To complicate things further, this car is one of the Type 54's originally supplied in 1969 with a 1.6 Crossflow 807 and white instead of yellow indicators, although they seem to work as side lights. It is not a US car. Does that mean parts marked "not suitable for US cars" will be the ones I want?

I have heard horror stories about generic ebay aftermarket wheel cylinders for other makes being machined well out of factory spec from new, and poor quality on top. Can't help but worry about the non genuine seals after SwiftDB4's post.

Also, the calipers and pads on this car look old and unused (probably asbestos pads, I found a very old box for the pads, which didn't mention asbestos free or have warnings), as do the front dampers which look aged but new. The car has been off the road for 40 odd years now. It was pretty dry, the chrome is near perfect. It would be sensible to pop fresh seals in the calipers at a minimum, but then would fresh Chinese ones or old stock Girlings be as good as what is in there? I will have to take a very close look and start measuring bore sizes! I guess I need to know what master cylinder bore size the car has at the very least before I look for a TRW cylinder.

The manual page links are very useful thanks. Those wiring diagrams look ace.

[jbcollier]

For the calipers, you can buy seals and pistons (if corroded) from all the usual British car parts suppliers.  Don't split the calipers if you don't have the special seal between the halves.  Not many places have those seals.  Moss and Angloparts do but there is really no need to split the calipers unless you're getting them plated.

[4129R]

Try knocking the MC through by tapping the extension bar to the pedal with a wooden mallet softly.

Take care, those extension bars rust, and can easily break. Any sign of corrosion damage and renew, for obvious reasons.

[lotusfanatic]

Hello JohnW

 

Mark

[JohnW]

Just a quick note to say that we managed to remove the Master Cylinder. Thanks for the help! It was the outer rubber dust cover remains, all gooey, that was holding it in. A levering and a really good tug from the front luggage area and it came away. We couldn't remove it all from inside the car as it was falling apart.

Just to confirm the circlip is fitted in the master cylinder bore, and it can stay in until the master cylinder is off the car.

All the dust covers on the wheel cylinders and callipers have also crumbled with age. 40 odd years off the road according to the original Swiss log book!

[dakazman]

 

   Glad to hear from another S2 owner!

   If you decide to split the calipers here is One link For the proper Girling seal.

https://www.pegasusautoracing.com/productdetails.asp?RecID=1144

 
   Dakazman