Author Topic: Elan vs Europa driving experience?  (Read 1765 times)

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Offline Tdskip

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Elan vs Europa driving experience?
« on: Saturday,February 08, 2020, 09:28:08 AM »
I’m still working on getting my Elan put back together, but all of the discussion about that ‘74 Europa valuations does curious about how the two cars will respectively drive compared to each other.

Thanks again for the help and warm welcome.

Offline SilverBeast

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Re: Elan vs Europa driving experience?
« Reply #1 on: Saturday,February 08, 2020, 09:36:35 AM »
I've never driven an Elan and only done 100 miles in my Europa, but I feel reasonably confident saying its probably easier to get in and out of the Elan  :)

Offline Tdskip

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Re: Elan vs Europa driving experience?
« Reply #2 on: Saturday,February 08, 2020, 10:01:53 AM »
Good morning.  So would the Europa is harder to get into but roomier once you’re actually in?

Offline SilverBeast

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Re: Elan vs Europa driving experience?
« Reply #3 on: Saturday,February 08, 2020, 10:46:44 AM »
I've never sat in an Elan, but you practically wear a Europa.  I suspect they have electric windows because you couldn't move your arm enough to operate a winder.  I don't find it difficult to get into, but you do have to thread yourself in as it's so low and you haven't much clearance getting your legs under the steering wheel when getting in. Once there I find it really comfortable.

Saying that I don't feel claustrophobic and was really surprised how comfortable the ride is, even on poor surfaces.

Offline BDA

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Re: Elan vs Europa driving experience?
« Reply #4 on: Saturday,February 08, 2020, 11:18:28 AM »
Getting into a Europa is certainly more difficult than a convertible Elan. I don't know about the coupe.

When I was young, I could jump into my Europa - and when the starter went out once, I had to when I push started myself! But now that I'm older (and with a better starter), it is a multi-step process but not that bad. Getting in and fitting if you are tall depends a lot on where you are tall. I'm about 6' 1 1/2" and when I sit in mine, my legs are straight, my seat is all the way back, and I have a bubble in the roof for extra headroom. The bubble isn't absolutely necessary but it does not go unused! I know a guy who is something like 6' 3" and needs no bubble in his roof.

Incredibly, there are several ways of getting into a Europa and my technique is evolving. Currently, I steady myself with my right hand on the 'A' pillar while putting my right foot as far to the pedals as I can. As I go down, I put my left hand on the door sill and "fall" into the car. Then I bring up my left leg and put it in. It's less graceful than I used to do but it puts less stress on my back.

Pfreen posted a video somewhere (I couldn't find it) of his technique which is basically to put his but in the seat with both feet on the ground and then swivel them into the pedal box (I think he's shorter than I am).

SilverBeast is right, once you're in, it's more like you are wearing the car - a sensation you probably wouldn't feel nearly as much in an Elan. I don't find it claustrophobic but I will say that when I was putting my car together and I sat in it for the first time in twenty five years with a seat installed, I wondered if I had made a very expensive mistake because it felt so small. I didn't make a mistake! There is no car like it! For us boy racer types, the seating position is more like in a race car than an ordinary car.

Offline SilverBeast

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Re: Elan vs Europa driving experience?
« Reply #5 on: Saturday,February 08, 2020, 11:36:15 AM »
Here's a video of getting into a Europa https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=LghcabmuOzA

Offline Tdskip

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Re: Elan vs Europa driving experience?
« Reply #6 on: Saturday,February 08, 2020, 01:07:18 PM »

Offline SilverBeast

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Re: Elan vs Europa driving experience?
« Reply #7 on: Saturday,February 08, 2020, 02:06:09 PM »
Fortunately I'm only 5' 10" so it's a little easier for me.

I've read all the posts on the site since I joined -apart from the wtb/for sale threads.  It was in one of those.

I need to spend more time clearing space in the garage so I can work on the Europa, instead of procrastinating.....

Offline Pfreen

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Re: Elan vs Europa driving experience?
« Reply #8 on: Saturday,February 08, 2020, 02:41:02 PM »
I made a video at the urging of literarymadness.  I am 6’2” and 207 lbs, depending on how much beer I drink.
Enjoy!
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=HSj-3NuaoBg

Offline Fotog

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Re: Elan vs Europa driving experience?
« Reply #9 on: Saturday,February 08, 2020, 03:25:30 PM »
What about the actual driving experience?  Some members here have both, and I'd be interested to hear a comparison of the two.

Offline Grumblebuns

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Re: Elan vs Europa driving experience?
« Reply #10 on: Saturday,February 08, 2020, 04:15:23 PM »
My last on the road Elan driving experience was 30 plus years ago and it probably not the best driving example at the time but the two things that still sticks with me about the Elan was first, the precision of the gear shifts. Having the gear lever directly connected to the shift forks in the perfect position for shifting was pure heaven. The second was the windup and release of the donuts from sloppy clutch and throttle coordination. That took some getting use to. I suppose the one thing they both have in common, as with all Lotus, is the precision of steering and the feel of the tires on the road and not much else.

Hey Tom,if you want to test fit the Europa, stop by next time you're down my way.

Joji Tokumoto
Fallbrook, Ca         

Offline BDA

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Re: Elan vs Europa driving experience?
« Reply #11 on: Saturday,February 08, 2020, 04:53:37 PM »
I drove a buddy's Elan about 35 years ago (I wonder if Joji and I did it on the same day? :) ). I had the same experience with the donuts but I don't think that is typical. I have since talked with Elan owners who do not experience the wind up on gear change. Having said that, if I were to buy an Elan, I would make sure it had CV joint half shafts.

I can't really compare the driving experience between an Elan and Europa since my Elan experience was so long ago but as I remember, the steering precision was familiar as was the excellent handling but I can't say it was better or worse than the Europa. Maybe EuropaTC will chime in since he has one of each.

Offline tedtaylor

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Re: Elan vs Europa driving experience?
« Reply #12 on: Saturday,February 08, 2020, 05:27:16 PM »
apples and oranges.....night and day.... totally different cars altogether, no comparison.    I've owned and driven both.
TED
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Offline EuropaTC

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Re: Elan vs Europa driving experience?
« Reply #13 on: Saturday,February 08, 2020, 11:47:22 PM »
Another 2c's worth.....

I've owned an Elan since the mid 70s, the Europa from the mid 80s. Both are taxed/insured and driven when it's sunny or the mood takes me. Neither car is standard, the Elan has larger front brakes, higher spring rates, adjustable dampers and a CV conversion to the rear, the Europa an all disc conversion, 15" wheels and similar suspension changes as the Elan. Having bought both cars as OEM standard, the changes I've made significantly alters the driving experience; I wouldn't go back to OEM cars now.

Both cars are very "direct" but on balance the Elan is the easier to get on with because as Joji said, the gearchange is simply excellent, very much like the MX5 Mk1 we had a few years ago. Whereas we all know the OEM Europa change is an acquired taste and sometimes needs thinking about going from 3rd-2nd in a hurry.  On a motorway the Europa is better, it is quieter at speed and being that touch wider/longer feels stable & relaxed. The Elan, being smaller and a dhc is noisier, it's just as stable but gives me that feeling of being hurried rather than cruising. I have driven 200+ miles in the Elan but if I had to choose even between these modified cars, the Europa would be easier.  (but to be perfectly honest, if I had to do 200 miles I'd pick a modern car  :-[  )

I don't notice any difference in getting in or out although if the hood is down on the Elan that's obviously easier.  A passenger in the Elan is rubbing shoulders whereas the Europa is a more laid back driving position and slightly more room for two. I'm no test-driving hero so I've no idea where the handling limits are these days. I suspect the Europa would be higher because it's on modern low profile tyres whereas the Elan is still on it's 155/80x13's so presumably they'll let go first. But that limit is far beyond my ability these days, so for me it's irrelevant.

Which did I drive most last year ? The Elan. Despite often being called tiny, impractical and all the rest, the boot will take my archery case easily and the Europa won't.  So Wednesday and Thursday nights it was the Elan going to the club, the Europa just poking it's nose out when the sun was shining.

Brian

Offline Certified Lotus

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Re: Elan vs Europa driving experience?
« Reply #14 on: Sunday,February 09, 2020, 05:25:48 AM »
I’ve been giving this a lot of thought.

I’ve owned three Elan’s (64 S1, 65 S2, 69 S4) and one 72 Europa TC. I had the 64 Elan S1 the longest and did a frame off restoration building it as a road going GTS sports car. It was lightning quick  due to a Quicksilver racing built engine and with 26R chassis, Sliding spline half shafts (no donuts) and fully adjustable coil over suspension it handled much stiffer than my completely stock S2. I had the top down 99% of the time.

From my perspective the Elan S1 & S2 is a pure joy sports car. Nimble, quick, simple and elegant. The gear change on an early Elan is one of the best in the world. Snick snick in any gear. The gear lever falls comfortably in your hand and the gear change is precise and solid.

It’s a small car which works well if your alone. Otherwise your shoulder to shoulder with your passenger. Driving was effortless as it’s so light and nimble. Back country roads were sought after to experience the sublime handling and easy suspension travel that whisked you around corners with ease.

If the weather was fine you just couldn’t get a more enjoyable experience. If it rained you were screwed. It took twenty minutes to install the soft top and the car leaked like a sieve thru the front door seams (in the S1, Lotus figured out the problem in the S2).

Never the less, of all the classic sports cars I have owned it was my absolute favorite.

I bought the Europa as a whim. All during my teenage years I had lusted over a Europa TC. I had plenty of other British sports cars (yes, I started rebuilding  sports cars early) but could never afford a Lotus. I promised myself I would buy one one day.

My Europa TC is my ninth Lotus. I’ve owned two Exige S’ (track cars) and two Elise’ along with the Elan’s mentioned previously. I currently own a 2005 Elise. I bought the Europa without ever driving one any distance. I just wanted one and figured it was a Lotus with all the right engineering from a performance standpoint so what the heck.

It showed up in my driveway after a tractor trailer trip from MN and I drove it about 10 miles. Finding any gear was fortune telling at its best. The driving position was pure racer boy. Yup, I’m going to like this sports car once I get it to my standards.  It went straight into my shop and was disassembled down to every nut and bolt (my detailed rebuild is documented on this website).

The engineering design of the Europa is very unusual. They clearly had to figure out lots of solutions to make this mid engine sports car work on the street. It is a sports car that requires the owner to be very engaged in the maintenance and mechanical care of it frequently or has the financial where with all to have a mechanic who knows these cars take care of it for you. It’s no wonder so many of these cars were just left on lawns or in the back of garages for years inoperable. The simplest thing would prevent it from being driven.

I’ve driven my Europa over 2000 miles since I’ve completed it. This sports car is addictive to drive. The moment you sit in the car your already at sensory overload as the seating position alone prepares you for an experience that is waiting to happen. Turn the ignition and the dual Weber twin cam engine comes to life right behind your head. Oh boy, this is foreplay.......

As you are reclined in the cockpit waiting for the engine to warm up your eyes scan the instruments to check on the engine vitals. Everything is in easy reach and view. Mmmmmm, the view. Well the rear view window is really a slot, the right side view (on a left hand drive car) is limited to what you see directly out the window as there is NO rearward visibility and the front view is wide but you can’t see the nose of the car. No matter, when you in front of the pack who cares what’s behind you.

I spent a considerable amount of time, money and re-engineering to make the gear shifting as precise as possible. Literally months went into the complete rebuilding and modifications of the shift linkage. If I was the car designer/engineer the solution they came up with would have prevented me from building the car in the first place. But here we are and 9000 of these thing got built for the road. It’s amazing. This is the worst shifting mechanism I have ever experienced in my lifetime of sports car ownership. I have re-set my attitude regarding expectations on this and now am completely in sync as I have mastered the art of Europa gear change shifting.

The Europa is one of my favorite sports car ever. I’m sure your surprised to hear that. Despite the lack of rearward visibility and the hunt for any gear the driving experience is a pure drug inducing high. The driving position sets everything off. Your reclined into a position that only formula car racers know. The engine noises are behind your head reminding you that this will be exciting. As you steer around corners you wonder how this could be so telepathic. The car almost steers itself just by thinking about it. As you pick up speed everything engages into a sublime visual, audible and tactical experience. It’s religious.

My first “test drive” was 800 miles long over 4 days. I was completely bewildered that this car was so comfortable to drive. The seating position is very comfortable and at speed the airflow from the vents and with the windows down are quite good (and this was during August in the North East).

Anytime you park the Europa people gather to look at it and ask questions. Driving down the road I’ve had other sports car owners pass me the opposite direction and turn around just to follow me. It attracts an unreal amount of attention. At British cars shows you will probably be the only Europa and EVERYONE wants to look at it.

Two entirely different cars built by the same company. Both are eclectic and fun to drive. Both have driving experiences that unmatched by any other sports car on the planet.

My advice? Be happy you own one of them and feel blessed if you own both. 

« Last Edit: Sunday,February 09, 2020, 06:31:41 AM by Certified Lotus »