Hi!

[GavinT]

Thanks for the rear brakes info.

I hadn't considered VW/Audi discs nor Scenic callipers probably because they're less common downunder, but those look good.
The Scenic callipers also look nicely compact.
What is the piston diameter?

My investigations are very much preliminary and I've yet to pick out 'sample' discs from the wreckers.
Mazda 929 discs appear to be candidates at 250mm dia. I also liked the idea of the modest thickness at 18mm where so many are 25mm. (spec below)

I knew a guy who worked at PBR many moons ago and he kindly gave me a rear calliper from a Nissan R31 Pintara/Skyline (pic below). It looks to have a doable handbrake arrangement.

[Richard H]

My trawl for parts went something like this..

Built the brake calculator spreadsheet that's now in the technical section, Bo Hellberg was a useful sounding board for my ideas.

Wanting to retain the front discs established the brake torque vs pedal effort required at the rear, also a desire to be able to fit 13" wheels should I wish to go back from the current 15" (unlikely TBH)

That established the disc diameter, a no-brainer in the end because the MGF was perfect for the job at 240mm and identical wheel stud centres

Going back to the calculator yielded a need for 34mm pistons, then it was a case of finding a suitable caliper.  I think I put 'rear caliper' into ebay search and went through 'new' parts starting with the cheapest.  This catalogue helped no end to identify whether they were suitable, link takes you to Scenic data.

http://www.brake-eng.com/en/catalogue/#market=gb&vehicleType=P&manufacturerId=93&modelId=4685&vehicleId=%7C15769%2CFront+Wheel+Drive+(02%2F01+-%3E+08%2F03%3B+80HP+%2F+59KW)&productGroupId=78

It's for UK vehicles but there will be some crossover with down under stuff I'm sure, it's a start anyway.  It's how I knew the Scenic caliper would do the job, and they were ridiculously cheap, something like £72 for a pair with pads.  There were plenty of other choices around the same size however.  Sometimes the ebay list gives piston sizes, if not a seal repair kit usually gives that info to avoid sending the wrong part.  Ebay pictures are definitely helpful.

It appeals to the hunter-gatherer in me to find this stuff..

[Richard H]

Gavin, just gone off to check my advice, yea I know, should have done that before, but anyway, some extra stuff.  Most new calipers are sold without the mounting frame and sliding pins, so put either 'mount' or 'complete' into the search or you'll be there for awhile hitting the page down button.

As a for instance I found Mazda 323f calipers from 1998-03 that have a 35mm piston, slightly larger, but credible alternative that will lock the rears at about 1 g deceleration, only achievable on a dry road, the fronts would lock first in the wet.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/MAZDA-323f-REAR-BACK-BRAKE-CALIPER-98-03-NEW-INCLUDES-COMPLETE-SLIDING-BRACKET/370973420546?hash=item565fbd2c02%3Ag%3AwswAAMXQJ3xRc94N&LH_ItemCondition=1000%7C1500%7C2500

The MG/Rover ZS has 33mm pistons..

The Scenic caliper is fitted to loads of small Renaults actually, see compatible list on this ad

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/TRW-Brake-Caliper-Rear-Right-Renault-Megane-II-Twingo-II-Rear-Axle-BHQ246/351637244689?hash=item51df368b11%3Ag%3AcPQAAOSwleldjhgD&LH_ItemCondition=1000%7C1500%7C2500

Either way, the general rule is that a small disc will be fitted to a small or light car and can only accomodate a small piston.  Large cars have large discs and large pistons, don't bother looking at them.

[EuropaTC]

Resurrecting the thread for a question.....

Richard, having read up on the spacers for the front hubs and having looked at a kit for the TRs I think I'd like to have a shot at this over winter. I'll probably go for an undersize spacer and make up with shims as per the TR kit I saw but it would be a big help if you could recall the size of the spacer you ended up with. It would save a fair bit of trial and error if I could start off with something that worked !

I appreciate it's a while ago you did it so if you've not got any notes that's fine, but it's always worth asking....

cheers
Brian

[Richard H]

Hi Brian, missed your post until just now..

My spacers were in fact a two piece affair because the inner and outer bearings are quite different IDs.  Therefore I used a section of tube that matched, or near matched, the larger inner bearing ID of 1", with a separate top hat section that reduced that diameter to that of the outer smaller bearing.

The top hat section was shaped thus because IIRC the bearing roller cage protrudes beyond the face of the race and could contact the spacer if it moved as far as the float allowed, hope that's clear.

The whole exercise started as I said before as an attempt to cure a clonking noise and I never expected the bonus of much improved straight line stability.  Had I realised at the time the documentation would have been much more complete given the number of owners that comment on wandering at speed.

John Collier mentioned the MGB kit also, however the spacer appears to be a larger diameter judging from the bearings

Spitfire https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2x-Wheel-Bearing-Kits-Front-FBK251-First-Line-Genuine-Top-Quality-Replacement/333382110700?fits=Car+Make%3ATriumph%7CModel%3ASpitfire&epid=1150435634&hash=item4d9f1f4dec:g:Io4AAOSwP-9du~Fm

MGB https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Genuine-First-Line-Front-Axle-Wheel-Bearing-Kit-FBK018/392526606305?epid=249350317&hash=item5b6468afe1:g:N5wAAOSwbY5dxn7l

Clearances within the hub will likely make the MGB spacer unusable as a basis for the Europa front bearings.  The shims maybe, but make sure they cannot catch the bearing cage, rather use some of these

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/0-2mm-THICK-SHIM-WASHERS-HIGH-QUALITY-STEEL-DIN-988-ALL-SIZES/253288550927?hash=item3af92c920f:m:mL7tYo9RonYTvbphx9unn2w

Although a better fit could be achieved on a lathe

I don't know anything about the TR options, but they need to be close to correct otherwise they will foul somewhere, the fit is surprisingly close.

[EuropaTC]

Hi Richard, thanks for the info, that's something else to think about !  I hadn't thought that you may have a 2 piece spacer, I'd assumed that it was a single tube ground to suit but now you mention it I realised that there is quite a difference between the bearings. 

I think the TR range uses similar uprights/stub axle/bearings to the Vitesse/GT6 range and they are bigger than the ones used on the Europa. It's a pity because they seem to be easily available and not badly priced for something that's fit & forget.

[url]https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Triumph-TR2-TR3-TR4-4A-TR5-250-TR6-Front-Wheel-Bearing-Anti-Knock-Off-Spacer-Kit/183404904328?hash=item2ab3c8bf88:g:DL8AAOSw-ctbhnKz{/url]

Brian   

[RoddyMac]

Brian, 
The bearings for the TR range are the same as the Europa,  but the spacing is different.   The GT6/Vitesse bearings are different,  but I seem to recall they use one of the MGB hub bearings.  I wonder if the TR spacer could be reduced in length.

Rod

[EuropaTC]

Ah, now that's good info Rod, thanks for posting.

For no logical reason I'd always thought that the TRs would have had the bigger bearings of the Vitesse range as they're "gruff'n'tuff" real men's cars....   

The TR kits seem to vary wildly in prices and I've seen both stepped and tapered end designs.  What has puzzled me though is that despite several google searches I've still not found anyone making a kit for the Spitfire which does surprise me. A popular car over here, plenty of brake and wheel "upgrades" going on so I expected to find a kit on the market.

Brian

[Pfreen]

Richard had recommended to me the bearing spacers, so I designed my own.  Shacktune used to make spacers for the Spitfire, but not any more.  I pretty much copied their design, but I machined my spacers to length to provide 0.000 - 0.002 inches of bearing play instead of using shims. 

Attached is a drawing of the spacer which is about 0.020" too long to provide stock to machine it shorter to provide the correct bearing play.  If you were to use shims, you would make the spacer shorter and make up the difference with the shims.  I  made the spacer out of 1100 carbon steel, which machines easily and has a fairly high yield strength (100ksi) and is reasonably hard (Rc 25).  I have not had any problems with them or the bearings.

I don't know if this fixed my high speed stability problems I used to have, but these spacers combined with alloy steel axles, and installing adjustable front A-arms and adjustable rear lower links to provide in-spec front and rear wheel alignment, made my car really enjoyable to drive at high speed.

[jbcollier]

Canley Triumph offers uprated suspension, hub and brake kits for the Spitfire.  The spindles and bearings in the alloy hubs are massive and beautifully machined.