Transaxle Sludge, Should I be Worried?

[surfguitar58]

I have been stripping paint from, and cleaning up my recently acquired 365 transaxle. Since I have repeated been hitting it with the pressure washer I thought I ought to open the drain plug in case any water found its way through the air vent or seals.

There was no water in the case (I tried to mask or be careful about spraying near the vent) but about 8 oz of really nasty looking oily brown/black sludge came out. The magnetic plug had a clump of stuff with the consistency of heavy grease. I rinsed the plug in gasoline and found a fingernail sized pile of magnetic filings, but no big chunks. I was told when I bought it that the unit had come from a wreck (supported by the fact that the rear bracket was bent) with about 35,000 miles on it. No clue how long it has been sitting around.

Question: should I be worried about this amount of sludge and metal filings? The input/outputs, differential and shift mechanism all work smoothly without grinding, binding or noticeable play. I was hoping to just replace the input and shift link seals and pop it in the car as is without opening the case. Should I slosh some WD40 around the gearcase to rinse out the sludge before filling it with gear oil? Thoughts?

Tom

[BDA]

I'm certainly no expert but I would say that greasy, oily sludge is better than something that could be in there! At least it might keep things from rusting. The amount of metal filings wouldn't alarm me and not having chunks of steel is surely a good thing.

I would split the case and clean it out really good and then put it back together. It's not that difficult to do. Just be careful of detent balls.

[jbcollier]

Perfectly normal for a transaxle to have that much sludge on the magnet.  It's not ideal as it indicates that the transaxle has had the usual rigorous maintenance common to North America.  That is: the transaxle oil was never changed.  These transaxles are robust though.  The only thing they do not like is running low on oil.  If they run low on oil, 5th gear runs dry first.

If it was mine I would:

- change the input seal and bell housing gasket (the bell housing has to come off to change the seal)

- while the bell housing is off, change the output seals, o-rings and set the ring/pinion free-play

- carefully remove the rear housing and check the condition of 5th gear, synchro and synchro-hub

(if 5th gear is good, immediately go out and buy a lottery ticket!)

No need to go further if 5th looks good.

Once it is all good, change the oil every 10K or two years, whichever comes first.  No leaks?  Check the oil level at the beginning of the driving season and once in the middle as well.  Under no account let the oil level get low!!!

[surfguitar58]

Perfectly normal for a transaxle to have that much sludge on the magnet.  It's not ideal as it indicates that the transaxle has had the usual rigorous maintenance common to North America.  That is: the transaxle oil was never changed.  These transaxles are robust though.  The only thing they do not like is running low on oil.  If they run low on oil, 5th gear runs dry first.

If it was mine I would:

- change the input seal and bell housing gasket (the bell housing has to come off to change the seal)

- while the bell housing is off, change the output seals, o-rings and set the ring/pinion free-play

- carefully remove the rear housing and check the condition of 5th gear, synchro and synchro-hub

(if 5th gear is good, immediately go out and buy a lottery ticket!)

No need to go further if 5th looks good.

Once it is all good, change the oil every 10K or two years, whichever comes first.  No leaks?  Check the oil level at the beginning of the driving season and once in the middle as well.  Under no account let the oil level get low!!!

I think we've all learned not to take your advice lightly, JB, so I think you have defined my winter transmission punch list. A couple of questions:

- change the input seal and bell housing gasket (the bell housing has to come off to change the seal)

• Sounds reasonable. I am thinking I will use my existing bell housing from my 352 trans. (I believe they are interchangable?) Are gaskets easy to come by?

- while the bell housing is off, change the output seals, o-rings and set the ring/pinion free-play

• Again, reasonable and doable, but now I have to get that silly daisy tool to get the seals out. Anybody want to rent me theirs? Again, are seals and o-rings readily available? Best source? I assume "set the ring/pinion free-play" is the same thing as "Adjusting the crown wheel and pinion backlash" as described on page 28 of the TC supplement tranny manual? 

- carefully remove the rear housing and check the condition of 5th gear, synchro and synchro-hub

• I assume I am just checking for excessive wear, missing teeth, etc.? I'll post some pics before I go out and but my lottery ticket!

Thanks BDA and JB for the advice!
Tom

[BDA]

Sounds reasonable. I am thinking I will use my existing bell housing from my 352 trans. (I believe they are interchangable?) Are gaskets easy to come by?

If you are using the tranny on the same engine, the bell housing are the same but you can't use the 365 bell housing directly on a Renault motor. If you have a Renault motor, you'll be able to sell your bell housing. It seems there's always someone who needs one for their TC or Zetec.

I see gaskets on ebay occasionally and it's likely that Michel at Alpine America (http://www.alpine-america.qc.ca = he's likely closed for the winter now) or other Renault tranny parts suppliers (http://www.lotuseuropa.org/LotusForum/index.php?topic=3343.0) would have them but if you can't find one, Permatex Good Stuff will do nicely. I'm not sure I'd bother with looking for the gasket.

Again, reasonable and doable, but now I have to get that silly daisy tool to get the seals out. Anybody want to rent me theirs? Again, are seals and o-rings readily available? Best source? I assume "set the ring/pinion free-play" is the same thing as "Adjusting the crown wheel and pinion backlash" as described on page 28 of the TC supplement tranny manual?

r.d sells the tool. I have used a motorcycle clutch holding tool (similar to this one: https://smile.amazon.com/Tusk-L35-471-Clutch-Holding-Tool/dp/B0039LEZFS/ref=sr_1_8?keywords=motorcycle+clutch+tool&qid=1570635795&sr=8-8). Others have castellated PVC pip cap or any number of other similar bits. For instructions on changing the seals and other tranny related information, check out the Lotus Europa Central documentation page and search for Trnasmission (http://lotus-europa.com/manuals/). There are several articles that might be useful. I believe JB is refering to the pinion backlash when he says "free-play." I believe the 365 has adjustable pinion depth and setting that is part of process of setting the back lash. JB knows a lot more about that than I.

I assume I am just checking for excessive wear, missing teeth, etc.? I'll post some pics before I go out and but my lottery ticket!

The 5th gear on the 365 was made by Hewland back in the day. They have had other things to do than make more of them for a long time so the gears (and probably the synchros?) are very rare. If your's are good, buy the ticket! If there is anything amiss, I think the best place to call is Apline America, mentioned above. Michel is well familiar with the 365 and Lotus Europas.

[jbcollier]

Do you have a 365 transaxle that came from a Renault not a Europa?  Your swapping bell housings makes me wonder.

Bellhousing gaskets are commonly available because they fit many Renault transaxles.

Yup, CW/P backlash.  No need to adjust the pinion depth.  It's the backlash that gets screwed up when people change the output seals.

RD has the seals and o-rings.  Send me your address and you can borrow my seal nut tool if you can't find one closer.

It's the 5th gear bearing surfaces which wear first when the oil is low.  Next the synchro-hub "teeth".  Finally the gear turns blue, then black as it overheats.

365 rear housing gaskets have been on ebay lately.  Otherwise Renault specialists.  I left out the gasket and used Permatex sealer meant for gear-oil.  The gasket between the main casings and the centre plate is critical, not the rear housing one.

Lotus/Hewland 5th gears and synchro-hubs are pure unobtainium.  Hewland offered to do a run but the minimum quantity put everyone off.  You can modify and fit a late 395 5th but it doesn't just drop into place.  Original Renault 365 5th gears are a lower ratio, 0.9x.

[BobW]

I bought a W1270 tool from Lordco for the output shaft seal nuts on my 336. I think its intended application is Ford/GM axle locknuts, so it shouldn't be hard to find. The tool has only six teeth but it works OK.