Author Topic: Timing R16  (Read 409 times)

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Offline aspares

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Timing R16
« on: Thursday,September 19, 2019, 11:12:21 AM »
I have a 71 Europa with the R16 engine with a 45DCOE. I have sent my distributor out to be recurved but the distributor guy thinks that the info I sent him might be wrong. Because it now has a sidedraft with no ported vacuum off the carb and I dont want to use manifold vacuum. Can any tell me how many degrees it should be at the crank and different RPMs.
Also according to my book if I remember correctly compression on this engine is 10.25 to 1 is that correct.
Thanks for the advice,
Martin

Offline jbcollier

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Re: Timing R16
« Reply #1 on: Thursday,September 19, 2019, 11:24:45 AM »

Offline aspares

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Re: Timing R16
« Reply #2 on: Thursday,September 19, 2019, 03:46:11 PM »
Thanks JBCOLLIER I thought you would have a good answer.
Martin

Offline jbcollier

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Re: Timing R16
« Reply #3 on: Thursday,September 19, 2019, 10:28:08 PM »
Just remember that the 12 degrees total advance is “distributor” degrees.  You double it to get crank degrees.  Same with the rpm.

Offline Music City Lotus

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Re: Timing R16
« Reply #4 on: Monday,September 23, 2019, 11:32:24 AM »
Why not use manifold vacuum?
Here is a helpful article on the subject:
https://www.chevellestuff.net/tech/articles/vacuum/port_or_manifold.htm
1971 Lotus Europa Type 65

Offline jbcollier

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Re: Timing R16
« Reply #5 on: Monday,September 23, 2019, 04:14:06 PM »
The article confuses mixture quantity with mixture strength.  Part throttle gives less mixture not necessarily a leaner mixture.  Peak cylinder pressure should be slightly before TDC.  11° BTDC comes to mind but it has been awhile since I read up on all this (not on the internet, in technical manuals).  Idle and part throttle mixtures do indeed take longer to burn and may benefit from more spark advance.  How much more primarily depends on combustion chamber and port design.

Increasing part-throttle timing advance can greatly increase fuel economy and improve drivability.

Increasing idle timing advance can be problematic, particularly with manifold vacuum.  Idle timing advance much above 15° may lead to an uneven, hunting idle. Using manifold vacuum to advance idle timing means the ignition timing retards suddenly and significantly when the throttle is opened.  This often creates a huge flat spot that can be very difficult to eliminate.  Using manifold vacuum also gives maximum vacuum advance at idle which may mean total vacuum advance may need to be limited for a satisfactory idle and be less than is needed for best part-throttle operation.

Contrast this with ported vacuum advance which gives a nice increase in advance when the throttle opens.  This really improves drivability.

I have worked on cars from the 20s on up.  I was at ground zero dealing with drivability issues when emission controls were introduced.  I'm sorry but the author is mistaken, port vacuum advance was the norm prior to emission controls.  It was used because it gives an even, steady idle, good drivability and good part-throttle economy.

Now back to sidedrafts and part-throttle vacuum.  Only a few side draft carbs had a ported vacuum outlet, very few.  There are good reasons for this.  Larger throttle bores mean that port vacuum signals are smaller in magnitude and exist for less time as the throttle opens.  Sidedrafts are also frequently set up with a single carb bore feeding a single cylinder, this gives a pulsing vacuum signal not suitable for vacuum timing control. You can fit vacuum "dampers" inline, or mix the signal from multiple bores but it all starts to get rather complicated for limited gains.

This is where electronically controlled timing advance really shines as you can use rpm, throttle position, manifold pressure and knock sensors to deliver the ideal timing to suit a huge variety of conditions.

PS: I have greatly simplified things as all sorts of other factors come into play with ignition timing: bore/stroke ratio, piston area and design, etc.
« Last Edit: Monday,September 23, 2019, 04:22:43 PM by jbcollier »