S2 clutch cable source

[shootingsight]

Restoring my S2 from 1970.  A thorn in my side back when it was last driven was that the clutch cable was always sticky.  Presumably the arc shaped swing of the lever caused the hole in the crimp to ovalize, and allowed the internal plastic sheath to poke out and jam a little.  So I'm going to replace the thing.

Is this out of a vehicle that might still be available as an off the shelf part, or do I need to get it custom made?  And if it is custom, would it do the community any good if I get a dozen made?  I imagine these are standard industrial fittings, and the cost is in the job set-up.

[Sandyman]

RD Enterprises in Pennsylvania and SJ Sportscars in England both have clutch cables.

[jbcollier]

VW Type 2 clutch cables can be adapted.

[GavinT]

I used a Mazda Bongo (Van) cable.

It's a very nice sturdy cable with dust bellows on each end.
Minor adaption needed and reasonably priced the last time I looked.

[shootingsight]

Thanks,

RD do in fact have it listed at $129.  I also have a quote coming from a custom cable shop near me.  For info, I'll try and configure the drawing I made and load it up.  I'll also see if there is any discount for multiples that would justify having several made.

[BERNIEHUMBER]

HI:
I thought I would have to replace that cable but as a last chance I got a Motion Pro Cable Luber Motorcycle ATV Clutch Throttle Brake 08-0182 from Ebay and low and behold it freed up.Now any time I have to replace(or not) a cable(motorcycle or car) I lube it up with this gadget.
I have since got a new cable and will replace it in due time as it's not the most pleasant job in the world.

[dakazman]

It’s ironic that this thread came up at the same time as greasing your pedals. I pulled out my pedal assembly and found a piece of the cable installed. A quick search on eBay for a VW type 2 clutch cable and for a mere $9.35 delivered. Winner, winner. Thanks JB and shootingsight 😀
Dakazman

[GavinT]

I used a Mazda Bongo (Van) cable.

It's a very nice sturdy cable with dust bellows on each end.
Minor adaption needed and reasonably priced the last time I looked.

Hmmm . . I'll correct myself.
I think it was a Mazda Bongo throttle cable I used - not clutch cable.

Either my memory is playing tricks or I'm getting old . . probably both. 

[shootingsight]

I don't get how a VW cable works.  The VW is just a steel cable, held under tension.  The Europa S2 with the Renault engine has a cable in a flexible sheath so it does not need to be under tension.  Perhaps in the TC Europa it is a straight shot from the pedal to the clutch actuation lever?

[EuropaTC]

I don't get how a VW cable works.  The VW is just a steel cable, held under tension.  The Europa S2 with the Renault engine has a cable in a flexible sheath so it does not need to be under tension.  Perhaps in the TC Europa it is a straight shot from the pedal to the clutch actuation lever?

I'm not familiar with the S2 but from what you say it sounds like the TC where you have an inner cable with a flexible outer sheath going from inside the cabin to an anchor point bolted to the engine.

From that photo of the VW cable I'd guess it's the right length and you remove the end nipple, re-use your old outer cable and solder a new nipple at the right length ? It sounds a hassle but in practice that's not so difficult and you'd probably have it done in half an hour. (I made my custom handbrake cables in similar fashion)

Brian
 

[GavinT]

I don't get how a VW cable works.  The VW is just a steel cable, held under tension.  The Europa S2 with the Renault engine has a cable in a flexible sheath so it does not need to be under tension.

I Googled some pics of the VW cable fitting, and your assessment seems to be correct. The VW uses a short conduit (bowden tube) but not a full length outer sheath as per the Europa.
When replacing the cable, I reckon I'd want a new outer sheath as well.

On my Type 54, the cable pull from the engine mount to the clutch lever isn't straight and it tends to gouge out one area of the hole in the outer sheath.
I'm intending to go with a hydraulic system which should also permit reducing the pedal effort to something approaching "normal".

[jbcollier]

The VW cable provides a very inexpensive, replacement inner cable.  It’s meant as an in-service replacement.  If you need the outer sheath as well, then many vintage motorcycle shops will carry lined outer housing that can be made up to the desired length.

I did a hydraulic conversion on mine.  No need to change the pedal assembly.  Simply fit a 0.70 m/c beside the existing brake master and immediately inline with the pedal assembly’s clutch cable pull lever.  Use the next size up brake line (1/4”, not 3/16”) as there’s a lot of fluid to displace over a considerable distance.  Finally use the clutch pull slave from Wilwood.  Take the extra effort to have the pull slave in perfect alignment.  The cylinder does not use cups but o-rings.  Any off-axis loads results in greater wear and correspondingly shorter life.  I got 5K out of my first one.

[shootingsight]

You are exactly right - that is how my cable failed.  The arc swing of the lever wears an oval hole in the end, and eventually the thin plastic sheath inside to allow the steel cable to slide in the steel conduit can begin to poke out the end.  I guess the ovalized wear acts as a slight funnel, so the plastic sheath pokes out, but then jams going back in, causing the cable to hang up.  It'd be nice if the plastic sheath were glued in, so it could not migrate.

My other thought is if the plate where the cable terminates allowed the flexible conduit to pivot ... or just buy a new cable every 30,000 miles.

[dakazman]

  Found the cables your  talking about. The sheathing is much shorter than the cable, and now I see where it the sheathing starts and the purpose of the bracket that was in the bag with the pedals. after 20+ years you forget the runs . Now I have to figure out where the speedometer cable run goes, in due time. 🤔
Two other bags had the internal cable , one which looks like the VW cable😀. The sheathing is in good shape and posting so all can see what an S2 has installed.

Shootingsight , thank you for letting me barge in.
 
JB, yet another great idea. I’ll have to put that on the back burner and remember where I saw it.👍👍

Dakazman
 

[GavinT]

I did a hydraulic conversion on mine.  No need to change the pedal assembly. Simply fit a 0.70 m/c beside the existing brake master and immediately inline with the pedal assembly’s clutch cable pull lever.  Use the next size up brake line (1/4”, not 3/16”) as there’s a lot of fluid to displace over a considerable distance.  Finally use the clutch pull slave from Wilwood.  Take the extra effort to have the pull slave in perfect alignment.  The cylinder does not use cups but o-rings.  Any off-axis loads results in greater wear and correspondingly shorter life.  I got 5K out of my first one.

Brilliant, thanks.
Only 5K from the first one? . . bummer.
I've read about using larger diameter lines for the clutch but never really delved into it.

How does the M/C work with larger fittings etc.? - special / different M/C?
Is it a case of the same fittings but with a larger hole & flare seat to take the larger line?
Is the port in the M/C a larger diameter or are they already sufficient to take the 1/4" line?
Flare seat in the M/C?

What's the Wilwood pull slave bore diameter that works with a 0.70" M/C?

Sorry about all the questions, but yaknow . . enquiring minds.