Author Topic: Blasting vs. Chemical stripping and Gel coat or Epoxy primer?  (Read 947 times)

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Offline Bart

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Blasting vs. Chemical stripping and Gel coat or Epoxy primer?
« on: Wednesday,July 31, 2019, 09:24:09 AM »
Hi everyone.

I am about to separate the body from the chassis of my TCS (once I can get the steering rack and brake MS off uhh another fiddly, swear word inducing job I've been putting off!) and then its onto the real work of restoring the bodywork. The car has been resprayed at least twice and there appears to be lot of paint build up and thus a lot to remove to get back to the gel coat. I am trying to decide the best way to remove the old paint, the options appear to be:-
1. Sand it back with DA sander/Hand sand
2. Chemical Strip
3. Soda Blast
4. Dustless Blast

I am leaning towards a soda blast option its relatively inexpensive and I use this for cleaning parts already so I know the process a little. Chemical strip just sounds well, messy and nasty to work with but I've never used these products so I don't know for sure.

The second part of the question is what to prime the body with prior to paint, I think I am going to have areas where the gel coat is either worn through or not there after some repairs to the bodywork. The options appear to be:-
1. Gel coat sprayed on, I've read that most gel coat cures anaerobically and that an additive is required to help it cure?
2. Epoxy primer.

I was wondering what experience you all have with these questions and if you have any recommendations and tips for this part of the process.

Thanks!

Jon

Offline Chuck Nukem

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Re: Blasting vs. Chemical stripping and Gel coat or Epoxy primer?
« Reply #1 on: Wednesday,July 31, 2019, 09:34:07 AM »
Hey Jon,

Good luck with the chassis removal.

I would go with a Dynabrade DA air sander. I used a Dewalt electric DA sander for the bulk of the stripping and it left my hands tingling for days. The Dynabrade is unbelievably smooth and cuts paint much faster than an electric. You need a decent compressor, but if you are soda blasting you probably have one already.

For primer I am going to try out a polyester based high build primer directly to the body. I will seal with epoxy before doing the color coat.

Offline Rosco5000

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Re: Blasting vs. Chemical stripping and Gel coat or Epoxy primer?
« Reply #2 on: Wednesday,July 31, 2019, 01:04:48 PM »
Hi Jon,
I would go with DA.  My dad blasted his Elan +2 and in hindsight we would have sanded the car to strip it if we did it again.  There was a lot of prep work to get it back.  Duratec makes a polyester high build primer especially for fiberglass.  We used this as the base to get the car straight and then the body shop sealed with an Epoxy primer and shot the car in color.  So far it looks fantastic.  Its about 3 or 4 years since we painted the car.
Ross
1974 Europa Special
1969 Europa S2
1970 Lotus Elan +2
1978 Austin Mini - 1275, big brakes
1991 Ford Explorer - Lifted on 33s, custom lift and radius arms
2005 Chrysler 300C - chipped, lowered 22s
2011 Cadillac Escalade - Stage 3 cam, Headers, CAI, 2,600 stall converter

Offline dakazman

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Re: Blasting vs. Chemical stripping and Gel coat or Epoxy primer?
« Reply #3 on: Wednesday,July 31, 2019, 01:23:53 PM »
Hi Jon , rosco is correct. I personally do not like chemical or soda blasting on this type fiberglass.
The chemical strip gets into the loose fibers , spiderwebs, etc,  then when sealing or gel coat is applied , blister or create a soft spots that later show up in the final finish.
I also do not like gel coats. That’s just me. On later types glasses , yes . Do not skimp in this area. Hi end cars often have several layers of prep to obtain a desired look.
  Sand away! ! It safer in the long run.
I got caught not redoing a po repair and paying for it now.
We love pictures!
Dakazman

Offline gideon

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Re: Blasting vs. Chemical stripping and Gel coat or Epoxy primer?
« Reply #4 on: Wednesday,July 31, 2019, 01:36:23 PM »
Hairdryer (or heat gun with care) and a razor blade. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3VrYP7t1axY

Offline Fotog

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Re: Blasting vs. Chemical stripping and Gel coat or Epoxy primer?
« Reply #5 on: Wednesday,July 31, 2019, 01:52:07 PM »
Gel coats are just polyester resins optimized for color and exposure to the elements.  I know this from boat ownership and repair.  They're used as the outer surface of production boats.  They spray it in the female mold, then lay-up the hull inside that.  One-offs are virtually always painted.  The typical 2-part urethane paints are beautiful and last forever in the sun (but I don't think they're show-car paint).

You'll want to paint your car.  So I think that once you've repaired the stress cracks with a super-lightweight cloth (like 0.5-0.75 oz.) you should prime with something like the Duratec (polyester) primer or a high-build epoxy primer.  I haven't yet gotten that far to decide, and maybe either is equally good.  In summary, I don't think that gel coat makes sense.  And I think that when I do the stress-crack repairs, I'll use epoxy because it's harder than polyester and therefore I'll be less likely to sand-through the lightweight cloth while doing the final fairing/surfacing.

Offline Fotog

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Re: Blasting vs. Chemical stripping and Gel coat or Epoxy primer?
« Reply #6 on: Wednesday,July 31, 2019, 02:36:09 PM »
Oh, and about this:
I've read that most gel coat cures anaerobically and that an additive is required to help it cure?
Yes.  Gel coats normally, at least in their basic form, won't cure on their surface without a wax additive.  This is because they're normally used between a mold and the structural layers of a layup, so...no air.  After spraying it in the mold, the surface shouldn't cure so that it will bond to the subsequent layers in the layup. 

Gel coats with a wax additive are usually used in repair situations, usually by consumers.  It's what you'd get at a marine store, but not necessarily from a fiberglass-materials supplier.  The wax rises to the surface and makes an anaerobic film so that the surface cures.  If one needed to bond anything to that surface subsequently, the wax must be removed (acetone) and then the surface abraded.  Those repair-type gelcoats are "non-air-inhibited", a nice double-negative.  I usually use regular gelcoat for repairs and spray PVA mold-release over it so it cures.  It's cheap and washes off with water.

FWIW, I've always been pleased with the materials and service from Express Composites, a family operation in Minneapolis.
https://www.expresscomposites.com/

Vince

Offline GavinT

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Re: Blasting vs. Chemical stripping and Gel coat or Epoxy primer?
« Reply #7 on: Wednesday,July 31, 2019, 11:17:09 PM »
For my money, stripping the body by hand (or a DA sander) is an incredibly mind numbing process.
And while a DA will do all the large areas just fine, the black hole of time consumption is in the small areas - inside the headlight recesses, the tail light recesses, all the concave curves etc. Also consider how to manage all the areas inside the engine bay and under the front bonnet.

When I did mine, I had the body sand blasted - I know, I know.  ;D
This was long before anyone offered niceties like soda blasting. I realise it’s somewhat controversial and many will rightly point out the dangers. The vital key to success with an aggressive process like sand blasting is the operator.

The guys I used were well versed in fibreglass cars and had done many before mine. I’d be very hesitant to use someone without that background and Ive seen such an example which wasn’t pretty.
Don’t expect a guy who blasts shipping containers every day to be sympathetic with a fibreglass body.

The up side to any blasting method, apart from the enormous time saving, is that you get a body back with the faults clearly showing. That’s very important and often underrated in my view. Plus, of course, any blasting method will remove the paint from all the rough inside surfaces like the engine bay etc.
Modern soda blasting is much less aggressive & risky, so that’s what I’d do.

Chemical stripping always concerned me. I’d want to be 100% sure there was no remaining stripper hiding away unseen and untreated, so, I’d vote no on this one.

As for finishing, it’a all about the shape, I reckon.

I use the usual repair methods - grind out and fill with chopped strand matt for serious damage and tissue for the spiders. Then, I skim over the repaired area with polyester filler to restore the shape.

For myself as a home gamer, I found the biggest hurdle was to develop a feel for surface straightness.
As part of that, I discovered that filler is softer than fibreglass and the amateur like me can easily think the panel is straight when there’s actually a dip where the filler was laid down . . and that’s even using a longboard.

Then, someone put me onto polyester spray filler (Duratec? - can’t remember) and that solved a couple of issues. Firstly, it provides a uniform surface that’s easy to sand dry and the often overlooked issue of pin holes.

Gel coat is pretty much standard for boats for obvious reasons but not needed on a car.
Epoxy primer has a stellar reputation for hold out so that’s an easy decision. With that said, I think I used a polyeurathane primer with no issue.

Offline Bodzer

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Re: Blasting vs. Chemical stripping and Gel coat or Epoxy primer?
« Reply #8 on: Thursday,August 01, 2019, 12:38:26 AM »
I sanded mine with a makita cordless da sander linked to an onieda cyclonic dust extractor. It took awhile but there was very little dust. Most people have regretted using soda blasting. Miles Wilkins of Fibreglass Services in his repair book does use Nitromors but does warn that you have to be quick and be obsessive about its removal. However, his book was written in the ‘80s when nitromors actually stripped paint. Apparently the new stuff is useless.

I was relatively lucky as my Europa was still on it’s original paint.

Offline surfguitar58

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Re: Blasting vs. Chemical stripping and Gel coat or Epoxy primer?
« Reply #9 on: Thursday,August 01, 2019, 04:53:27 AM »
I have some contractor friends who swear by these Festool random orbit sanders. https://www.festoolusa.com/power-tools/sanders#Intro They are super expensive, so much so that I bought the top of the line Bosch sander (that I love) for about half the price, but those who drank the Festool coolade insist theirs is noticeably better.
t
"A designer knows he has achieved perfection not when there is nothing left to add, but when there is nothing left to take away."
Antoine de Saint-Exupery

Offline Bart

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Re: Blasting vs. Chemical stripping and Gel coat or Epoxy primer?
« Reply #10 on: Thursday,August 01, 2019, 11:35:43 AM »
Hi all,

I just wanted to thank everyone who replied to my post, amazing - thank you all! I am mulling the choices but the consensus is sanding with a decent DA sander and given I'm not in a hurry that's most likely the way I will go. I will post some photos of the project as I move along in the next few weeks. The great chassis/body work separation will most likely happen next weekend if I can round up enough fellas to lift and separate : )

I have the first consignment of stuff leaving from the UK next week (thanks to Nick, Dave and Richard at Banks), so I can finally get my hands on some nice new shiny pieces and not just rusty, dirty old pieces. The motor is being rebuilt and improved somewhat by Omnitech Engineering in Washington state, I can not wait to see it, I'll post pics of that too when it gets here.

I've been reading up on spring rates and shocks etc, so that will be the next conundrum, most likely i'll chat to Richard at Banks and get his profoundly knowledgeable input on this element of the rebuild.

Anyhow, thanks again to all!

Jon


Offline Gmg31

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Re: Blasting vs. Chemical stripping and Gel coat or Epoxy primer?
« Reply #11 on: Wednesday,September 11, 2019, 08:00:50 AM »
I had my car soda blasted and it was the worst advice I had during mt restoration.  It was incredibly expensive and left me with a car with a golf ball finish.  It took me a whole year of high build primer flatting down and further coats before the car was ready to paint.  2 years on I still get soda blowing in my eyes at speed.
 

Offline BDA

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Re: Blasting vs. Chemical stripping and Gel coat or Epoxy primer?
« Reply #12 on: Wednesday,September 11, 2019, 08:17:36 AM »
I've been reading up on spring rates and shocks etc, so that will be the next conundrum, most likely i'll chat to Richard at Banks and get his profoundly knowledgeable input on this element of the rebuild.
Please let us know what Richard says about springs. I think his ideas around this evolve around this and it would be nice to hear his latest thinking.