Author Topic: Europa book by Vale  (Read 2386 times)

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Offline jbcollier

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Europa book by Vale
« on: Thursday,July 18, 2019, 11:03:47 AM »
I just got the “Lotus Europa Colin Chapman’s Mid-Engined Masterpiece” by Michael Vale from Veloce Publishing.  Plowed through the first two chapters so far and it is a bit of a disappointment.  There are no period photos, photos of modified cars not noted as such, points illustrated with photos of the wrong model, minor factual errors and, so far, one big whopper.

He talks about the S1 having somehow surreptitiously finding its way to North America.  Well, distributors ordered them and the factory sent them, that’s how mine got to Canada.  Few other minor things and then he goes into great detail how there were ventilation fans in the front compartment and the heater box!  The first position of the fan switch turns on the fan in the front compartment, correct, and the second turns on the fan in the heater box as well(!?).  As we all know, there wasn’t a fan in the heater box, and the second position of the fan switch turned on the rad fan in S1s and S2s.

When I heard that he was writing a book on the Europa, I suggested that he have a couple of list members proof read it.  Maybe he thought I was trying to cage a free book but he came back with timelines being too tight.

Too bad really…

Online BDA

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Re: Europa book by Vale
« Reply #1 on: Thursday,July 18, 2019, 11:25:10 AM »
That is too bad. I might have wanted one.

Offline EuropaTC

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Re: Europa book by Vale
« Reply #2 on: Thursday,July 18, 2019, 01:58:37 PM »
I just got the “Lotus Europa Colin Chapman’s Mid-Engined Masterpiece” by Michael Vale from Veloce Publishing.  Plowed through the first two chapters so far and it is a bit of a disappointment.  There are no period photos, photos of modified cars not noted as such, points illustrated with photos of the wrong model, minor factual errors and, so far, one big whopper.

and

When I heard that he was writing a book on the Europa, I suggested that he have a couple of list members proof read it.  Maybe he thought I was trying to cage a free book but he came back with timelines being too tight.

Thanks for the heads up John, as I'm a sucker for buying books I would no doubt have bought it online had I seen it on Amazon.  But one thing that really grates with me is bad proof reading or more likely, bad research leading to presenting inaccurate details as facts so you've saved me a disappointment.  And I have no idea where the double fan thing came from. As if Chapman would add extra anything to a car, he's supposed to have complained about mechanics using washers saying "why are those washers going for a ride on my car ?"

Sadly I find similar things in modern UK magazine articles and as this is supposedly the home of Lotus you'd think we'd at least get the basics right. I put it down to sloppy journalism and the idea that if they fill a couple of pages 90% of readers won't know there are errors and 10% that do have already bought the mag based on the front cover anyway. Cynical ? who, me ?   :)

I do recall the offer of proof reading on the forum and the declination because of time constraints. I didn't understand it at the time and still don't; if you're asking for detail confirmation and someone offers to check the whole thing then it's an odd decision to turn down help. Let's face it, most of us would get through such a book in a couple of days at most.

Brian

Offline Matt Elan

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Re: Europa book by Vale
« Reply #3 on: Saturday,July 20, 2019, 07:27:08 AM »
Hi All
Sorry to hear about your disappointment with my book.  I put my hands up to the errors noted by jbcollier and could you pm me with any comments so I can put them right if the book goes to a second printing.

To pick up one one comment - I made a conscious decision not to include many period pictures as I wanted to celebrate the current state of the cars, and I have no doubt that if I'd used many original shots people would complain about reusing shots they have seen before.
Most current cars have had mods and there is not enough caption space to list them - and that would probably a) also be criticised as nit-picking if I did and b) if I did list any mods and missed anything then that would also collect criticism....!

Finally you need to understand that writing a book it is a fairly intense task and mistakes will be made, especially when the finished product is scrutinised by you experts - and I work to fixed deadlines so did not have time to get the book reviewed by you guys. Plus Iin my experience an 'external' review will result in a lot of unnecessary comments which waste everybody's time - such as not liking a particular style and disagreeing with things that I know are true or are open to interpretation. The book is my personal work and as I say at the start I put my hand up to the small errors identified and am happy to change them in the next edition.

Incidentally, reviews in the motoring press have so far been overwhelmingly positive (see this motns Octane for example).

Finally the critics among you should ask yourselves if you would prefer to have a book on the Europa which has covered the car comprehensively but with a few, in my eyes, minor errors or no book on the car at all?
And just to show how easy it is to make these errors my name is Matthew Vale, not 'Michael'.... :)

Matthew Vale
 

Online BDA

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Re: Europa book by Vale
« Reply #4 on: Saturday,July 20, 2019, 08:33:29 AM »
I can't comment on the content of your book since I haven't read it but I appreciate that it is a big undertaking to write one.

JB has mentioned a couple of issues that should be addressed in any future printings. From his review, I expect there are more. I would also like to echo his question about who proof read the book. From his description, it sounds like someone who was not as familiar with the subject as he might have been. Possibly you could have availed yourself of a broader range of sources.

I've never written a book and I reiterate that it is much more work that I probably assume (and I assume it's a lot!) so far nobody from here or the yahoo group has stood up and said he was a source. I would think JB, for example, would be a particularly valuable one, on the S1 especially, since he owns one, has intimate technical knowledge of them, and has shown a lot of interest in the history and early reviews. Some of us have been involved with Europas specifically and Lotus more generally and could also provide some context or details.

I don't mean any of this to be criticism but rather questions about how the book was put together. It might be you had other sources you felt were better suited to your project, but this forum and the yahoo group are the largest groups devoted to just about every aspect of the Europa that exists and I would have thought that one of us (and I'm not talking about me) would have had some involvement. Then on the other hand, maybe one or more of us did help you and they just haven't made themselves known yet.

Just a few thoughts...

Offline EuropaTC

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Re: Europa book by Vale
« Reply #5 on: Saturday,July 20, 2019, 09:37:20 AM »
Hi Matthew,

Before I make any more comments, let me say full credit to you for responding to this thread and the comments that have been made. It's never easy to accept criticism, so well done for doing so and noting the points.

Like BDA I have never written a book, mostly because doing so wouldn't interest me but I have been marginally involved on the periphery of one well received Lotus book and I know how much effort went into researching that one and how deadlines slipped. Or rather they didn't slip because the author was fastidious in making sure he had correct detail and all known bases covered.  It reminded me of something Chris Foulds (UK Lotus Specialist) used to say when customers complained about the time he was taking - "do you want it quick or do you want it right ?"

I think if you want to produce something that is seen as a reference for the marque, then it's got to be right. Books like the Robinshaw examples on both the Elan and Europa are held in high esteem even though well past their printing because they have loads of detail and, at the time of printing, it was acknowledged as the best source available.  But not everyone wants that sort of book and a coffee table book with a general outline and plenty of good photos is equally popular, but again, the details must be right or they detract from the final product.

I accept your points about unnecessary comments on writing style, disagreeing with points you believe are true, etc. Comments on writing style are yours to consider and discard as you wish, it is after all your book. And it's not something open to debate (again, it's your book) so I couldn't see it as a massive time waster, or at least not of your time.

But if someone makes a comment on a detail which you believe to be true, then it's worthy of re-checking because you could easily be wrong or alternatively the critic could have a valid reason for stating his point. Lotus made lots of production line changes, just look at the interior detail changes on the Elans for example.

I've owned Lotus cars since the mid 70s and bought my one-owner Europa in what I took to be totally original condition in the 80s so you'd think I had a reasonable grasp on the Elan & Europa.   But there are still things I discover to be either different or conflict with what I was sure to be 100% fact. 

It just comes back to what you want to produce; a reference source which will sell well to both knowledgeable and casual enthusiasts, for example the authors Robinshaw, Buckland or Miles Wilkins' books, or a lighter book which is aimed at those who "just want to know a bit about Europas". 

As always, your book, your choice.  But again, full credit and respect for responding to criticism.

Brian

Offline Matt Elan

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Re: Europa book by Vale
« Reply #6 on: Saturday,July 20, 2019, 10:17:37 AM »
Well, I've amazed how negative the response has been to the book on here. Yes, there are a (very) few mistakes in the book and I've put my hands up to them, and am happy to have any other ones pointed out to me. However the wave of criticism from people who have not even read or seen the book are frankly astonishing. When I was writing it I asked a number of questions on this forum and was very pleased with the high quality of the responses I got and I've acknowledged this in the book.

Rest assured, the book was professionally proof read and reviewed before it went into print and it is a very high quality product thanks to Veloce's production values. In addition, I worked closely with 10 or so owners, featuring their cars in some detail and all of them have come back to me to say how much they enjoyed the book.

Its all very well sitting back and saying how much expertise there is on the site and the yahoo groups, but at the end of the day I've sat down and persuaded a publisher to take the subject on, and have produced a book which I'm proud of and which you I thought you guys would appreciate. Apart from Bob Herzog and the Robinshaw/Francis books this is the only tome which specialises in the Europa which surely is a good thing?

I think I've added something to the Europa community, especially in the interviews I did with Mike Kimberley and Oliver Winterbottom on the development of the Twin Cam so its a bit more than a coffee table book full of pretty pictures; and it gives a probably definitive account of the design and development of the car.

I'd be very interested to hear from anyone on the site who had read the book and has constructive criticism or comments, please PM me and I will respond off line. 

Offline jbcollier

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Re: Europa book by Vale
« Reply #7 on: Saturday,July 20, 2019, 11:08:31 AM »
Hi Matt,

Will gladly submit a detailed erratum sheet for you.  I don’t think there’s a rush though.  I imagine any second printing won’t be happening anytime soon.  It’s just that it is high season around here right now.  With five months of winter, I’d rather spend the summer doing than reading about doing.

Still, I’ll make some progress and post it chapter by chapter to this thread.

Online BDA

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Re: Europa book by Vale
« Reply #8 on: Saturday,July 20, 2019, 11:27:30 AM »
Just to re-emphasize, I was not being critical of your book or the effort you put into it. I was responding to the impression left by JB's criticism and I had hoped that I included enough caveats in my post to make that clear. I commend you for interviewing Kimberly and Winterbottom. That fact alone makes me much more likely to buy it. I certainly do not wish you or your book any ill. To the contrary, I hope they are successful and a second printing is required so you can address whatever needs to be addressed.

I should also join Brian in saying that I appreciate your posting here. I might also sheepishly say that it wasn't till just now that I looked at your book (the part Amazon previews) and saw your acknowledgement for help received from this forum! I really appreciate that! And looking at your past posts, it seems I contributed a very small detail to one of your questions!

Now that I've had a (abbreviated) look at the Amazon previews, I see JB's criticism about not clarifying non standard aspects of cars in your pictures. I also understand you had limits on captioning. I thought noting those in the text might be useful, but then if you spend all your time doing that, you really break up the flow of the book. For your next printing, maybe there might be a middle ground. Maybe foot notes. And you may have done this but a "warning" that there are relatively few purely stock examples so the pictures may not necessarily be of unmodified cars. Again, I'm only trying to be constructive and understanding.

With the interviews with Kimberly and Winterbottom and the controversy that has erupted here and in the yahoo group, I think I will have to buy the book now! I should say there are some nice color pictures in the book too!

Offline EuropaTC

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Re: Europa book by Vale
« Reply #9 on: Saturday,July 20, 2019, 11:43:06 PM »
(Note - selective quotes)
Well, I've amazed how negative the response has been to the book on here. 

However the wave of criticism from people who have not even read or seen the book are frankly astonishing. When I was writing it I asked a number of questions on this forum and was very pleased with the high quality of the responses I got and I've acknowledged this in the book.

I'd be very interested to hear from anyone on the site who had read the book and has constructive criticism or comments, please PM me and I will respond off line.
Whoa Matt, it's hardly a massive negative response or wave of criticism, there's only 3 of us who have posted !  Admittedly there is a more negative response on the Yahoo group, but even then I would say it's not been directed at the book but more about having inaccurate information in print.

That's the key IMO, we're all enthusiasts here and we're looking for something we haven't seen before about our cars.  For example I've never had an S1 but when John (JBCollier) went to the trouble to get the S1 handbook reprinted on a small run I was very grateful to be able to buy a copy. Nothing to do with my car, it's in the wrong language (French ! ;)  ) and I'll never own an S1, but boy, did I want a copy !   It's the same reason that most of us probably have a complete collection of the Brooklands road test reprints even though there's duplication; we're all keen for info.

So that probably explains the comments you've seen so far.

From my perspective all criticism is positive, even if it's not what I expected or wanted to hear because once I've gotten over the shock it gives me cause for reflection. And even though I'll probably grumble, I will go back and check my facts. I'll either be right, in which case I'll carry on, or wrong and able to make corrections.

I suspect if you had sent PDF chapters to a few on the Yahoo group or here, you'd have had a response within days and thus reduced the margin for errors to creep in. I even think it would have increased your sales because everyone wants to own a copy of something they've contributed to and we're all too old to be bothered to pirate a copy to read on the PC when we can get a real paper book. 

Just a thought for next time.....

Brian



Offline Sandyman

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Re: Europa book by Vale
« Reply #10 on: Sunday,July 21, 2019, 06:03:51 AM »
 :I-agree: Matt, In my humble opinion, Jbjollier who is one of this forums greatest sources of correct information makes only 1 negative response that I can find on this thread. I can't wait to buy the corrected 2nd. edition. In a small way I know how hard it is to craft words into a valuable piece of work.
With the greatest respect
Sandy

Offline jbcollier

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Re: Europa book by Vale
« Reply #11 on: Sunday,July 21, 2019, 08:02:29 AM »
I politely disagree.  I have extensive and intimate knowledge of exactly one (1) S1.  I collect any and all materials to do with S1s and some on S2s.  I worked on Renaults (and Peugeots and Citroens) and all the various British cars for more years than I care to remember or acknowledge.  However, I only worked on a small handful of twinks.  I have learned LOTS from other forum members (and the yahoo group) and am grateful for their help and patient (well, mostly) corrections.

Offline GavinT

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Re: Europa book by Vale
« Reply #12 on: Sunday,July 21, 2019, 08:23:33 AM »
Well, I've amazed how negative the response has been to the book on here.

[SNIP]

Its all very well sitting back and saying how much expertise there is on the site and the yahoo groups, but at the end of the day I've sat down and persuaded a publisher to take the subject on, and have produced a book which I'm proud of and which you I thought you guys would appreciate.

Guys, guys, guys, you (we) are insufficiently appreciative.

Read Matthew’s very first post on this forum.
Matthew says he’s written a couple of books on the Elan and Elite/Eclat/Excel. He also says he’s restoring a brace of Plus 2s.

Matthew is a writer and he’s doing research.
From the following bio, it’s clear Mathew has written quite a number of articles.

“The author
Matthew Vale has been writing books on classic British motorcycles and cars since 2004. Now retired from his work as a Chartered IT Professional specializing in computer security, he is devoting his free time to classic car and bike restoration, writing classic motoring books and articles, and spending time with his wife and family. In the past he has run such diverse classic cars as a Triumph Spitfire Mark III, MGB, Triumph Stag, and a Lotus Elite. He also restores and rides classic bikes, including the Triumph Bonneville, Norton Commando and BSA Lightning. With a lifelong fascination for glass-fibre-bodied cars (stemming from early holiday jobs at various glass-fibre factories, and ownership of many rusty cars), he is currently carrying out a nut and bolt (and glass fibre) restoration of two Lotus Elan Plus 2s.”


https://www.quartoknows.com/books/9781787112841/Lotus-Europa-Colin-Chapman-s-mid-engined-masterpiece.html

Matthew has plainly stated he was constrained by fixed deadlines, caption space, reluctance to reuse photos people have seen before and he didn’t have time for anyone to do a review.
Recognise this is a commercial exercise and it’s governed by those considerations. Behind this is a publisher selling books.

Matthew was commissioned to write this book. He isn’t chronicling or romanticising about some personal journey with a Europa.
I’d expect the target market to be the ‘aspirationals’ and rather less aimed at members of this forum.

But . . you know . . please buy my book.  :))

Offline literarymadness

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Re: Europa book by Vale
« Reply #13 on: Wednesday,July 31, 2019, 07:51:56 PM »
I just received my copy of the book and gave it a quick read.  From my perspective, the flaws of the book were ridiculously exaggerated. Yes there are several bits of misinformation and a few typos. And some of that misinformation is information catalogued from propagated Europa lore that has been around for years and taken for granted as fact.  But the book is 150+ pages. And those pages contain quite a bit of both relevant and entertaining information.  Several of you noted that you have never written a book but...  Well my non-Lotus background is a little different. I am a college professor with a degree in Print Media Studies, graduate degrees in Creative Writing and Applied Linguistics, and doctoral studies in Literary Theory and Forensic Linguistics.  I definitely view the printed word differently.  Most textbooks unless they are the 3rd or more editions have a few first print errors and mistakes. It is next to impossible to produce a perfect first edition. I would never snub an otherwise great text because of a few errors only an expert in the field would catch. You simply move past them for greater sake of the work.   Printed pages are rapidly becoming obsolete and this more than likely will be the last printed book on the Lotus Europa. Considering how overshadowed the Europa is by both the Elan and the Esprit, it is amazing this book was approved and published at all. I applaud Mr. Vale for getting the job done.  I will try to break down the text as I see it.

The book appears to have three purposes:
1:) a historical background on the Europa backed up by behind the scenes insight gained from from former employees and key figures in the development of the Europa.
2:) statistical information in terms of key changes in the mechanical development of the Europa (There are some detailed charts with both part numbers and chassis numbers when those changes occurred)
3:)personal insight into what it is like to own and live with a Europa as seen through the eyes of actual owners (one anecdote was Chapman's personal pilot who Chapman insisted should own a Europa).

The text also delves into the racing aspect of Europas (including Type 47s).  There is an incredible amount of high quality photos for those who like looking at Europa porn.  The book is perfect for anybody wanting to buy a Europa or recently purchased one. It is fairly entertaining for the semi-seasoned owner who will enjoy reading the behind the scenes aspect of the text.  For the Europa elitist, when was the last time a book was written exclusively about Europas and how many decades before the next.  And for those top  Europa one-percenters, you won't be able to look past the few minor mistakes to enjoy the rest of the book.  I enjoyed the book and will email Mr. Vale personally to tell him the few mistakes I found.
« Last Edit: Wednesday,July 31, 2019, 09:02:58 PM by literarymadness »

Offline lotusfanatic

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Re: Europa book by Vale
« Reply #14 on: Thursday,August 01, 2019, 12:46:14 AM »
Hello Matthew,

I have a matching-numbers (but very, very rough) S1 if you wanted to take any photographs for a second print of your book?
(but to be honest there are far better examples than my car which have been kept original and intact)
I will look for your book and hopefully add a copy to my very small library of Lotus!

Mark