Starting 'er up

[jbcollier]

I think your meter is off.

[Fotog]

Back to the carburetor mounting, I've had a revelation about those Thackeray spring washers.  Given that they are springs and we don't want the carburetor adapter flange (whatever it's called) in contact with the intake manifold, I thought that they went between the two to spring them apart.  Not so!  The O-ring holds the two apart, and the washers go under the nuts to allow some flexibility after the nuts are tightened. 

Not having seen it properly assembled on my car, nor in any manual, I had the wrong picture in my head.  After looking at it and considering that possibility, I came home and googled for some images of mounted Strombergs, and damn if they don't have the washers between the nuts and adapter flange instead of between the flange and the manifold!  Hot diggity!

V

[Fotog]

I'm not getting fuel.  So I've got a leak on the suction side, a fuel pump that isn't working, or a blockage.  Working on it!  Manually I could pump fuel at least a few inches out of a jar when the pump was on the bench, so I thought it was ok.  I'll investigate.

[Sandyman]

One GD thing after another. Have you tried to put a spoon full of fuel into carb inlet and fire the engine? Sometimes just cranking the engine does not actuate fuel pump fast enough. Fire extinguisher at ready.

[4129R]

I'm not getting fuel.  So I've got a leak on the suction side, a fuel pump that isn't working, or a blockage.  Working on it!  Manually I could pump fuel at least a few inches out of a jar when the pump was on the bench, so I thought it was ok.  I'll investigate.

If the fuel tanks are full enough, the level is above the pump. That should help any reluctance for the pump to pump fuel.

I had a huge problem starting a 5.6 litre Ford V8 that had been unused for 3 years. I had to drop fuel from a 2" paintbrush into the 4 butterfly inlet. I checked to see which cylinders were firing. Only #8. I put more fuel in and gave it some right foot and it started on 6. After about 2 minutes running, the other 2 started up. I was told hydraulic valves may have been to blame.

Try cranking the engine with the plugs out to see if you can persuade the pump to work. Sometimes it takes a lot of cranking to get things primed and firing.

[Fotog]

Thanks for the suggestions.

I was able to spend a little while on it yesterday.  Though I'd be glad to see it go, I'd just as soon make sure that the fuel supply system is all working right before I start it.  So I don't feel the need to cobble up some other way to supply fuel just to see it run. 

The setup is that I have one carb in place, and I'm looking to get fuel flow out the open branch of the tee at the carburetors when I crank it.

-The carburetor float bowls were filled on the bench.
-I don't have any plugs in.  Cranking is easier.  I'm not trying to start it (yet).

The hard thing was coming up with some kind of fitting for the inlet to the pump.  When I did, I ran a piece of tubing down into a can with some fuel below the car.  When I cranked it, it sucked that right up.  No problem, so the pump is fine.  I just have to crawl under there and get some gas on me while I figure out what's blocked, or where I have an air leak.  I didn't have time to work on that.

The starboard-side tank, near the carbs, had an inch or two of 30 y.o. gas that I drained a few weeks ago.  There was a bit of stuff in the bottom of the tank that I didn't worry about too much, as I put a filter above the tee between the tanks.  I put the other tank in place that hadn't been there in ages.  Of the 10 inches of gas I put in the starboard tank, none of it made it into the tank on the other side.  So that's  pretty weird and not a good sign.  Maybe I should have been more concerned about the stuff in the bottom of the tank.  Need to investigate!

[Sandyman]

Is there fuel coming out of the tanks? If there's a blockage in tank remove the fuel tank caps  and put air pressure to the tank side of the fuel pump.

[4129R]

Several of the 14 tanks I have taken out have had the small 1/4 outlet tube blocked.

I use a small drill in my hand to cut out any crap in the straight bit, then I use thick copper fuse wire or earth wire to get around the bend. Then I blast the pipe with high pressure air from a compressor to clear any crap in the pipe.

That outlet pipe is about 1" above the bottom of the tank (so sediment stays in the very bottom of the tank) and goes a long way into the tank. So it is easily blocked if the car has been standing unused for years.

I replace the pipes with 1/4" copper pipe, with brass Ts and short rubber connectors tank to copper tube, copper tube to T x 3, and then copper tube to tube into pump.

[Fotog]

Yes; the 1/4 in. tube is plugged up with schmutz.  I assume I'll get it cleared out yet.  I have a solution in the tank working on it now.  Also, a wire; a fine tube brush; a 'pipe cleaner' if I can find one.  They used to be a common thing when people smoked pipes.  I can't imagine doing it, but to be clear, you replaced that tank outlet tube with a new copper tube?  Did you braze it in place?  'preciate your input though.

I might break down and just put some fuel in a can and suck it out of there and start the damn thing.

Vince

[Fotog]

And...14 tanks.  Wow!

[4129R]

No, I have cleared out all the blocked tubes into the tanks.

I replaced the black plastic original fuel pipes with copper from tanks to T and T to pump.

Several of those tanks have had very badly rusted tops as the rain just sits on top, so I have made new tops and I am about to get them welded into place.

Hence I can clearly see into the bottom of the tanks to see where the tube lies and ends. 

[Fotog]

Ahah!  Actually I later re-read your post and realized that you were likely talking about the plastic pipes.  I think they're supposed to be clear, but become black with sediment and general schmutz inside over time.

I spent some time on it today, without success.  I figured that I could clear the blockage pretty easily with a copper wire as you suggested and pipe cleaners.  Not so.  I can get them in there about 5 inches and then no further.  That 1/4 inch tube coming out of the tank makes a pretty hard bend outside of the tank.  What does it look like inside, since you've seen it?  Is there another bend or is it straight?   And what is the typical length inside the tank?

I'm thinking of buying a gallon of lacquer thinner and let that sit in there for a few days or removing the tank and taking a torch to the outlet pipe while I poke in there with a wire.  Just heat it up to about 200 F or so and see if that softens the crud.

[4129R]

The pipe is straight inside the tank, and about 9" long.

I suggest you try clearing the tube with compressed air.

Then fill the tank with about half a gallon of fuel, put a plastic washing up bowl under the tank and see how quickly it comes out.

If you use anything other than fuel in the tank, such as very hot water, you can drain the tank dry by unscrewing the drain plug. I think it is a 9/16" spanner that fits.  Otherwise about 1" of other liquid will sit in the bottom and mix with the fuel later.

[Fotog]

Well.... I started it!  Hah!  Very cool.  A week ago, on Monday.

First, I got the fuel flowing. Where we left off, I was having trouble with that.  I used a heat lamp for about a half hour in the vicinity of the outlet tube from the fuel tank to soften the schmutz, then was able to get a copper wire through it.  Without the heat I ran into a dead end.  I followed that with pipe cleaners saturated with lacquer thinner.  Many of them.  Maybe 20.  Normal pipe cleaners for pipe smokers are are more abrasive (good), but only 6 inches long; not long enough.  The pipe into the tank is 8-9 inches long.  I used pipe cleaners from the craft store.  They're very soft, so not ideal, but they're 10-12 inches long, so that was good.  Anyway, I cleaned it out and got my fuel flowing from the tank.

Then I found that I didn't have a spark.  I should have checked for that earlier but didn't think it through in terms of how to test.  Not like me.  The inside of the distributor had looked clean, so I just gave it a go, with no success.  Next I checked the coil.  Resistances were 3.1 ohm primary and 7.8K secondary, and my inline spark-testing gizmo showed a spark when I wired the coil secondary (HT) to a plug with the gizmo in-line and made/broke the coil ground while the coil was energized (simulating the action of points).  So the problem was with the points.

I used a lightbulb in series with the points to confirm that they weren't doing their thing.

I removed the distributor, cleaned, and re-set the points. Everything in there looked clean, except the points were a bit corroded from sitting for about 25 years along with the typical erosion from sparking.  They weren't making good electrical contact when closed, but now they are. I re-installed the distributor.  I'm sure that the points are working right. On the bench after cleaning I confirmed that they made and broke a connection to ground, and I'm confident that I got things back the way that they were: Distributor in the same position and the rotor in the same orientation. 

[Fotog]

But I had a doubt about the plug wire positions on the distributor cap .  A few weeks ago, before I removed the distributor, I had removed the distributor cap and re-installed it, and although I labeled the plug-end of the wires, I later couldn't make sense of their positions on the cap.  I didn't think I removed them, but... it wasn't making sense.  I was comparing them to the info in this article from Lotus Marques in Australia: https://www.lotusmarques.com/info/technical/36-lotus-europa/163-tc-distributor-and-plug-lead-orientation , just trying to make sure everything was right.  It seemed to be a very comprehensive description about distributor installation.  Seems like good information, but it caused me some unneeded agro it turns out.

The low voltage lead to my distributor is at ~10 O'clock position.  I think that's non-standard.  The distributor isn't original, though it is a Lucas, as is the cap.  It has centrifugal advance, not vacuum.  I forgot to get the model number off it when I had it out.
-The cap has screws, with one near the block and one toward the side of the car, as the distributor is installed.  With this orientation, the plug wires exit directly toward the rear of the car.  Maybe in a different orientation I could get the screws out easier.  Pretty difficult access to the one near the block.

Let's just say that I ultimately satisfied myself with enough thinking about this.  I set it up so that my test-lamp showed points just opening at 5 deg BTDC on the compression stroke.  I didn't change the position of the distributor or wires, but I realized that there are 4 possible positions where it could work, and made sure that the rotor position was agreeing with the wire position for no. 1 and the other wires were in order counter-clockwise around the cap. 

Some other historical threads here were helpful.  Nothing exactly specific to my big question about the distributor, but it was useful for my overall understanding of the system.

I started it about 10 times over the first few days after I got it going.  I couldn't help myself.  Like a 16 year-old. 

One thing:  It doesn't run well when the fuel level is at or below the level of the outlet pipe in the tank.  :-)  Caused a little panic for an evening.

I've got other stuff on my plate, but when I steal some time, I'm working on installing seat belts and getting brakes working.