Starting 'er up

[Fotog]

Hi...   I have a twincam, 2619R that I'm looking to get going.  It ran when parked, as they say, but that was about 30 years ago.  Although I love something cosmetically & mechanically beautiful I'm just concentrating on function now; trying to do just the basics to get it road-able.

This is good; much better than the Yahoo thing in terms of usability.  I've already gotten a lot of good info here, but for a first post, I'll ask this:

Given the long period of sitting, would it be worth my effort to disconnect the radiator and flush the cooling system to whatever degree possible before I try to start it?  Can I even accomplish anything without running the engine?

The thought came to mind when reading the recent thread about replacement radiators and Sandyman said that his was fouled from 40 years' worth of rust and the like from the transfer tubes.  I don't know the condition of the radiator other than that it isn't leaking.   If it's currently clean-ish I don't want to foul it.  OTOH, I don't want to just make up things to do to delay my starting of this car.

Thanks for any thoughts-
Vince Harris

[Sandyman]

My thoughts are to drain the system (don't forget the plug in the block.) Fill with just water and run until the thermostat opens. Drain and see the condition of the water. Go fron there. Fingers crossed.

[BDA]

Sandyman has good advice. I was going to say that if you're only interested in getting the engine to run, you wouldn't have to worry about the condition of the radiator too much. That assumes it's not plugged up and that you don't run it fo long. I would certainly make sure your radiator was in good shape before you try to drive the car of course. I might take it to a radiator shop regardless. Of course when I did that, I ended up with a custom radiator the shop said was a more modern design. I finally ended up with an aluminum radiator not because I had any problems with the custom radiator, but I thought I'd get an aluminum one while I still could. Although China seems to keep making more.

[JR73]

As Sandyman has said pretty much, I'd disconnect the radiator and flush it out with a hose, then disconnect the pipes that run down the chassis from the engine and flush them (Don't forget there is a heater matrix that could also have a possible blockage/failure) followed by flushing the engine - connect it all back up and fill with water for the initial start - hopefully avoiding pushing any loose debris around the system and you can get an idea of the condition of each area whilst flushing them?

Does the engine turn over ok?
Good luck and please post some pics of your car as I'm sure everyone would like to see it.

Jon

[BDA]

I forgot to 

[Grumblebuns]

Going by my experience, I would recommend disconnecting the radiator from the coolant tubes and performing a a good flush with a garden hose flush the tubes from the engine side tubes. When I did the initial start of my S2 after it had been sitting for several years, I only drained and replaced  the coolant. Unfortunately the start flushed all of the sediment in the tubes into the radiator plugging it up and had me chasing my tail trying to figure out why I was running hot. While you have the radiator disconnected, it probably would be a good idea to at least have it pressure tested by a radiator shop and 

I should add that once you have the hoses removed at the radiator inspect the condition of the coolant tube internals. Mine was looked like a lava field of corrosion. Before refilling with new coolant, I used a homemade rust removal solution in an attempt to remove most of the corrosion.

[jbcollier]

By all means, thoroughly flush with water.  But, put properly mixed coolant back in.  Internal corrosion is a serious issue.

[Sandyman]

What are your plans after you get your Twink going?

[Sandyman]

Lucky you. Very close to R D Enterprises. They have been very helpful with all things Europa.

[EuropaTC]

Hi Vince and another 

To flush or not to flush: that is the question  (with apologies to Bill Shakespeare's Hamlet)   

I'm on the fence with this one and I'll admit that I probably wouldn't bother unless the coolant looked very dirty.  I suppose it depends how the car has been stored. 

If it's been parked up and left sealed up with antifreeze/inhibitor in the system then I don't think you'll have that much corrosion in the main tubes and engine block. There will be some of course,  but you need oxygen for corrosion and from the header tank downwards, with no circulation,  the access for oxygen is restricted. The inhibitor will degrade over time so you could expect something but probably not tragic.

If it's been left drained and open then I'd fill it up with water, run it for a few minutes then drain & fill with antifreeze/inhibitor.

However, if it's been stored with the system partially drained and open or with plain water in then all bets are off and I think I'd strip/clean completely. 

There's certainly nothing wrong with uncoupling the radiator hoses and draining/flushing as best you can to clear the main tubes.  If you're going that far then I'd also uncouple the header tank and drain/flush that separately because that's the obvious place in the system for an air/water interface and usually where you get most corrosion. It would be a pain if you flushed the radiator, started up and then filled it up with rust from the header tank !

Personally I'd start it up, check for leaks at the water pump and then drain the system from the header tank first and then the radiator/block/etc.  Depending on what came out I might even run a system flush before draining and re-filling with fresh anti-freeze/inhibitor.

As John says, internal corrosion with an iron block/aluminium head is a problem you don't want surprising you down the line.

Brian

[Certified Lotus]

  Vince!

It would be a strong recommendation from me to flush the entire system. Radiator, heater box, cooling tubes and engine block. Clean out the header tank (it certainly has residue in it).

Pull the car outside, drain the system into a container and then stick a hose into an open water hose for the cooling system at the top pipe. Run full pressure until the water comes out clean.

[Fotog]

Well, Jeez!

Thank you all very much for your thoughtful replies.  Very comprehensive thoughts, and generous of you.

I'll get on with figuring out how and where to disconnect things and connect up my hosepipe (I was looking for an opportunity to use that!) to flush things out.  Unfortunately it was down a bit on coolant, maybe close to a gallon.  There was a bit of leakage at the radiator hoses that I was unaware of.  I've tightened them and they're not leaking.  But that might mean some pretty nasty corrosion in some areas, particularly the block I would assume.

I'll get back to you about photos, plans, etc. as it's a nice Saturday morning and the clock's ticking.  But yes, the engine is free.  I turned it with a wheel.  Very pleased about that!

The manual is kind of sparse wrt info about the twincam-specific aspects of the cooling system.  Where do I look on the block for a drain plug?  Lots of spiderwebs and stuff under there.  And which is the outlet from the water pump?  The one projecting straight forward, or the other connection?  [edit:  I'm thinking it must logically be the second one] Is there a drain plug low on the radiator?  I didn't see one.

Thanks!... Vince

[EuropaTC]

(part quote)
There was a bit of leakage at the radiator hoses that I was unaware of.  I've tightened them and they're not leaking.  But that might mean some pretty nasty corrosion in some areas, particularly the block I would assume.

Where do I look on the block for a drain plug? 

Hi Vince,

A half empty system might not be as bad as you think, at least it's all happening at ambient temperatures with no temperature cycling and so corrosion should be very slow. The real problem is when you have wind/waterline problems because the levels are rising & falling and even worse if you get air ingress - like when you constantly check coolant level in the header tank "because it's a Lotus" 

Anyway, on the drain plug question I don't recall any on the radiator or block. There could well be some, but whenever I've changed coolant I usually drain the lot out of the front pipes & header tank pipe in the engine bay. If you take off both hoses at the front that'll give you a reasonable chance at flushing the transmission pipes and radiator. It's going to be difficult to clear the heater matrix without some serious dismantling inside the cabin, so you might just have to live with that area.

One thing that's just occurred to me is that if you're flushing out the block via the top hose to the head then removing the thermostat might be in order. If it's closed (and it should be) then it's quite an orifice plate restricting flow into or out of the head.

It sounds like you've got a busy weekend ahead !

Brian

[dakazman]

Fotog, 

  After sitting so long it may be a good idea to change the oil and filter and pull the coil wire and crank till you see oil pressure rise , maybe even pull the plugs and spray some oil in the cylinder while cranking. I hope you have some good weather or a heated garage to change
the oil .
 Secondly, I would drain the fuel also.
  BTW we love pictures.😀
Dakazman

[Sandyman]

Fotog, welcome. I know how much you want to drive your awesome "twink". However, if you follow all the excellent advice, you should save a lot of grief and money down the road. Get greasy, get to know your car.