365 Gearbox: Usual Suspects, or Automatic Total Rebuild?

[surfguitar58]

Today the gearbox fairy dropped of my new (to me) 365 5-speed! My frugal original owner bought the “base model” Europa special without any of the 3 options available; oatmeal interior, metallic paint, and 5-speed gearbox. (Of these the 5-speed is my only regret.)

All I was told about my new gearbox is it has about 30k miles on it, but people generally don’t remove a car’s transmission just because it was working perfectly. My question to the tribe: Is a complete tear-down and rebuild a given when buying a used mystery trans? Or, is there a bench test protocol for checking gearbox function? Seals or bearings that always need replacement? (The mounting bushings are shot, but that is to be expected.) The transaxle stubs move freely and smoothly without any radial or axial play or backlash. Anything else I should be looking for? Or am I just being a lazy ass for not biting the bullet and doing a complete teardown and rebuild? Thoughts?

Tom

PS – Is anyone trying to get rid of a spare long rear shift linkage for a 365?

[BDA]

I am NOT the tranny expert but if you're worried about your new 365, you could split the case and examine  the gears, synchronizers, seals, and any bearings you could see. I would think that extreme wear or damage would be evident. There's probably a shop near you who would be willing to lend an educated eye for a price. Michel at Alpine America could advise you about parts and what to look for but unfortunately, he's probably off for the winter and won't be available till May (I think). In any case, he's a good person to remember (mguegan@alpine-america.qc.ca and http://www.alpine-america.qc.ca).

I don't know how much of the tranny parts are available any more but I do know that the 5th speed gear setup was made by Hewland and as such, new parts are not likely available. Someone (with whom I have NO affiliation) is selling the 5th speed gear and synchro combination on ebay. You might take a look at it.

Just looking at your picture, you will want to get the 5/R detent cover. r.d. enterprises sells them.

[Grumblebuns]

Today the gearbox fairy dropped of my new (to me) 365 5-speed! My frugal original owner bought the “base model” Europa special without any of the 3 options available; oatmeal interior, metallic paint, and 5-speed gearbox. (Of these the 5-speed is my only regret.)

All I was told about my new gearbox is it has about 30k miles on it, but people generally don’t remove a car’s transmission just because it was working perfectly. My question to the tribe: Is a complete tear-down and rebuild a given when buying a used mystery trans? Or, is there a bench test protocol for checking gearbox function? Seals or bearings that always need replacement? (The mounting bushings are shot, but that is to be expected.) The transaxle stubs move freely and smoothly without any radial or axial play or backlash. Anything else I should be looking for? Or am I just being a lazy ass for not biting the bullet and doing a complete teardown and rebuild? Thoughts?

Tom

PS – Is anyone trying to get rid of a spare long rear shift linkage for a 365?

It's possible that the donor car was wrecked and parted out and you have the tranny. As BDA says you can split the case and look over the innards. Teeth damage and overheating of the gears should be obvious however, status of the synchros may take a more practiced eye and I believe it requires pressing out gears and bearings to get to the synchronizers. This was so for the 336, the 365 may be similar. Have you taken a transaxle apart before?

If it shifts smoothly by hand through the gears, no binding or noise turning the input shaft, I would change the gear oil. looking for chips and install it.

[Lotuswins]

I agree with Grumblebuns, check for chips/grindings by removing the magnetic drain (I think they were magnetic...could be the later ones), make sure it shifts okay, and turns okay, and put it in and try it.  You might want to leak test it first too, as its much easier to replace the seals on the deck.  These boxes are pretty bulletproof, my original has 130k on it, and I replaced it when 1st gear play was making a dull knocking sound at idle.  It still shifts fine, though a little noisy in 5th gear (whine).  Now it is my spare, but I measured the backlash on all of the case gears and they matched the newer box except for 1st gear (.010).  I finally figured out that it only knocked because I had changed to an aluminum flywheel, have 3/4 cams, and the pinion gear bearing might have a little wear, explaining the 1st gear backlash.  You can lengthen the rear shift linkage using 1 1/4 steel tubing. 

Jerry Rude
4005R

[jbcollier]

Can't imagine they shipped it with gear oil still in the box, but, if they did, drain it and look at it.  If it comes out as god-awful muck, pull the box down for a major overhaul.  If it is not too bad then I would still:

- pull off the rear housing and check 5th gear.  Not unusual for these transaxles to leak a bit and the first gear to lose oil supply is 5th.  Check it carefully for discolouration, wear and play.  Alas parts are largely unobtainium but do show up occasionally.  You can, with more than a bit of work, fit the 0.86 5th out of a later 395.

- remove the bell housing to do the below:

- change the output shaft seals and o-rings and carefully set up your ring gear backlash.  Many times people change the seals incorrectly and end up with an incorrectly set up diff that whines.

All of the above is covered in the manual, not that hard to do and well worth doing.

[surfguitar58]

Great advice all. I did a little further research and it seems it did come out of a wreck, so that’s encouraging. I will check the mag plug, 5th gear and seals as suggested and drop it in. I’ll update with the results.
Cheers,
Tom

[HelpMyLotus]

I can say without hesitation, DO A FULL INSPECTION!   I was lucky enough to get the car from my childhood back in my hands.  Back in the 80s it drove great with NO issues.  I sat parked until I got it back a year ago.  It had some trans noise but I didn't think much of it. It seized.  Destroyed.  I tried to find another box and not until Grumblebuns gave one up I was screwed.  There are so few 365s out there, and the remaining ones are going into Alpines for big money, that I would do everything I could to be sure this one has a long future.

[Pfreen]

Helpmylotus,
Why did your transmission crater?  I have a 365 in my Tcs and I have always been afraid of having your outcome.  It has 65k miles.
I change the oil frequently (once per year) and the magnetic plug usually just has about 1/16” of magnetic sludge.

[HelpMyLotus]

It was low on trans lube. I should have drained and replaced it before ever selecting a gear.  I've never had a car sit for that long then put it back on the road.  Well, I have a 67 Cooper but in simply changing the oil the trans got a new lube too; it's in the pan.

[Pfreen]

That explains it for sure.

How much gunk do you all find on magnetic drain plug when they change the trans oil?

[jbcollier]

The boxes are not fragile.  The known weaknesses are all down to user error or neglect.  They have a tendancy to leak a small amount of oil at the output seals because of the Lotus mods.  Renault half shafts enclosed the output shaft and minimal leaking resulted.

Keep an eye for spots of clear oil under the car and check the level often at first and as needed after you get a handle on how much it may be losing.  At the very least, check it at the start of every season and before any long trips.

[HelpMyLotus]

JB is right.  I can't say how long the box would have lasted, but I know near empty it was about 200 miles. 

The box I got from Grumblebuns gets topped off every 4th run or so.  Only a couple drops here and there but I won't go through that again.