Author Topic: 54/0651 My unexpected project.  (Read 11952 times)

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Offline matmacwac

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Re: 54/0651 My unexpected project.
« Reply #30 on: Friday,December 07, 2018, 12:24:30 PM »
jbcollier, your comments are excellent. If I wasn't such an obsessive compulsive, I would have written this story as the work was being done and saved myself a lot of heart ache. Your comments, if I had them then, would have prevented what happened next.

June 2018

With the new body back on the frame, I was anxious to run the Renault 16 with coolant. I installed the radiator which had been modified to except a modern electric fan, hooked up all of the hoses, double checked the clamps for tightness, and started to fill and bleed the system. I used a premix 50/50 antifreeze. I Bled the rad and the water pump and kept filling the swirl tank. There were a few gurgles and bubbles which I expect was normal. So I went in for dinner and left the cooling system to digest all the liquid that had been introduced. 

Upon my return I found that the level in the swirl tank had gone down considerably. So... I topped it up. I had a few other things to do around the shop so I checked back with it in a couple of minutes and found that the level had gone down a little.
Being a bit concerned, I topped it up again and went to bed.

The next morning the level had dropped to where the swirl tank was almost empty. the level was about the same as the height of the water pump. So... there has to be a leak. I looked under the car, around the rad, the heater, and felt around the carpeting which had just begun to be installed. All dry. Any logical person knows it didn't evaporate and it had to go somewhere. There was only one other place to look.

Upon pulling the dip stick I had my answer. The worst answer. The coolant had found its way to the oil pan. I didn't know if it was the paper seal at the bottom of one of the cylinders or a head gasket leak. The previous test runs of the engine did have a minor oil leak between the head and the block which stopped with a quick re-torque. I had good compression.

So I ordered a new head gasket. While the head was off and the oil pan drained. I poured some water around the cylinder sleeves and left it over night. The next day the level hadn't changed. So I logically concluded that the head gasket was bad or installed badly. The new gasket was installed. I was very careful to meticulously clean every surface. Torqued the head, installed and set the rockers, and installed a brand new water pump just to be safe.

To shorten this story, please reread the last 3 paragraphs.  Yes.  Exactly the same thing happened. Water migrated directly to the pan.

The conclusion is, jbcollier is right. A proper experienced person should rebuild a motor. I am now sure that the critical cylinder sleeve height was not achieved. There has to be a sleeve that's high. It would still have compression but coolant can travel into the cam chamber and arrive in the pan.

Not a bad experience, just an educational one. it was fate. I knew now to turn my attention to the Gordini Cross Flow, wiser than I was before.
« Last Edit: Monday,February 25, 2019, 09:55:14 AM by matmacwac »

Offline jbcollier

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Re: 54/0651 My unexpected project.
« Reply #31 on: Friday,December 07, 2018, 02:46:46 PM »
Ouch!

Sorry for reverse jinxing you.

Offline dakazman

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Re: 54/0651 My unexpected project.
« Reply #32 on: Thursday,January 17, 2019, 04:31:02 AM »
Yikes!!!
   I have been wrestling with buiding up my engine myself.  Chevy yes, renault no.

  Your making great progress and i love your story and the frame off pic9241990217526463400435s for reference to how much i can assemble .
Hope you sort it out soon for a better outcome.

  It looks like we have book ends.  Lol

Dakazman

Offline matmacwac

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Re: 54/0651 My unexpected project.
« Reply #33 on: Monday,February 25, 2019, 10:19:56 AM »
June 6, 2018

The original dash was shoot from water damage as was to be expected. I decided to take the opportunity to customize a new one to allow for the installation of a modern radio with Bluetooth, GPS, and a backup camera. This was to be the first concept version of the dash layout.

It turns out that there is not enough room for a full depth 2DIN radio. the back will hit the heater box. I went on Amazon and pickup up a very nice (and cheap) Android unit from somewhere in China that is only about 3" deep and has way more features than I need.

Offline BDA

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Re: 54/0651 My unexpected project.
« Reply #34 on: Monday,February 25, 2019, 10:41:39 AM »
Very cool! :beerchug:

I wish something like that was available when I built my car.

If it's not too late, let me remind you to finish the back and all the edges to keep moisture from migrating into the wood.

Offline surfguitar58

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Re: 54/0651 My unexpected project.
« Reply #35 on: Monday,February 25, 2019, 10:46:08 AM »
June 6, 2018

The original dash was shoot from water damage as was to be expected. I decided to take the opportunity to customize a new one to allow for the installation of a modern radio with Bluetooth, GPS, and a backup camera. This was to be the first concept version of the dash layout.

It turns out that there is not enough room for a full depth 2DIN radio. the back will hit the heater box. I went on Amazon and pickup up a very nice (and cheap) Android unit from somewhere in China that is only about 3" deep and has way more features than I need.

Nice looking unit! Could you share specs/Mfgr/Model number?
"A designer knows he has achieved perfection not when there is nothing left to add, but when there is nothing left to take away."
Antoine de Saint-Exupery

Offline LotusJoe

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Re: 54/0651 My unexpected project.
« Reply #36 on: Monday,February 25, 2019, 10:47:04 AM »
Would a single DIN fit?
Joe Irwin
3927R TC Special
(The Classic Barn Find)


Offline matmacwac

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Re: 54/0651 My unexpected project.
« Reply #37 on: Monday,February 25, 2019, 11:28:35 AM »
July 2018.

I started to inspect the Renault Gordini Crossflow engine. It turned fine but the valve cover had some damage and the valve guide seals didn't look very good.
I wasn't about to make the same mistake again. This time I'm going to get a pro to rebuild it. Ray at RD Enterprises suggested that I should talk to Michelle at Alpine America. He has a shop just East of Montreal. He is a very kind man and extremely knowledgeable. I'm embarrassed to say that as a Canadian, I should have been able to communicate with him better. My bad French and his broken English made it difficult to discuss in any detail the specific requirements of an engine overhaul.  We made arrangements for me to drive my engine to see him.

My friend Jeff volunteered to come with me on the 7 hour drive to Montreal. We planned to leave at 3:30am, be there before lunch, and get back home by early evening. Jeff is a good driving buddy because he has something to say on every subject and about every sight along the way. I discovered on this trip that his stories won't repeat for at least 14 hours. LOL.

When we got to Alpine America, I was pleasantly surprised to find a well equipped and quaint little shop that looked a bit like a Carriage House situated back behind Michelle's house. There were several cars there that I didn't recognise. Renault mostly. I quickly learned that the Renault Alpine was a formidable rally car that used the crossflow engine and Michelle has been working on these for decades and for some renowned drivers.

Michelle tried to explain that he could replace the valves and guides, install new domed pistons, balance the con-rods, port and polish the head intake and exhaust and lighten the pulleys and flywheel.  He tried, but I didn't understand it all. (I never learned the French word for Flywheel). Anyway, I knew my engine was in good hands. I told Michell that he had "carte blanche" to do whatever he wished to make my engine reliable and fast.


So with that, we walked back to his house, had lunch, bid him au revoir, and headed back to Ontario.

 
   

Offline matmacwac

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Re: 54/0651 My unexpected project.
« Reply #38 on: Monday,February 25, 2019, 12:12:16 PM »
surfguitar58, the radio is a Quidux Android CML-Play 8702. It cost me under $100. I didn't expect much from it at that price but it seams to do everything quite nicely. It even has WIFI and Netflix. I can't find it on Amazon right now. I bought it in May 2018. Here is a link from aliexpress.com.


https://www.aliexpress.com/item/QUIDUX-2-din-7-car-radio-android-GPS-Navigation-Player-Bluetooth-Car-MP5-Steering-wheel-Rear/32855867838.html?spm=2114.search0104.3.7.2a3b77b50v7kGE&ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_4_10065_10068_10130_10890_10547_319_10546_317_10548_10696_453_10084_454_10083_10618_10139_10307_537_536_10902_10059_10884_10887_321_322_10103,searchweb201603_61,ppcSwitch_0&algo_expid=ae72b82a-5c5f-4695-b39d-fb39628c6893-1&algo_pvid=ae72b82a-5c5f-4695-b39d-fb39628c6893

LotusJoe; Yes a single Din unit w/CD capabilities fits no problem.

Offline matmacwac

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Re: 54/0651 My unexpected project.
« Reply #39 on: Monday,February 25, 2019, 12:32:52 PM »
Continuing my Retrospective... July 2018

With my engine away at Alpine America for next few months, I worked on finishing the assembly of the trim, wiring, and interior. I left the Renault 16 motor in the car so that I could roll the car between the garage bays and hoists.

Offline matmacwac

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Re: 54/0651 My unexpected project.
« Reply #40 on: Monday,February 25, 2019, 01:03:27 PM »
October 2018

Its been 2 months since the Gordini went to Montreal for rebuild. I feel like I've done all I can in preparation. I had an "incident" while installing the windshield. I was spending the day in the shop and fielding phone calls using a Bluetooth headset.
 Well, I was just finishing the windshield install and delicately forcing the seal to except the glass while talking to my sister on the phone. I guess the call must of been distracting becuase the glass cracked. There are somethings you shouldn't do distracted.

I ordered a new windshield from Pillkington and arranged to have it brokered through Fred at British Auto Sports. They were very helpful.

I had a Family meeting/reunion to attend in Montreal on October 6th at a beautiful hotel which happened to be just 15 minutes from Alpine America. This offered me an opportunity to visit Michelle and my Crossflow engine.

While there, I saw the completed engine with the blue valve cover which I later found out belonged to Runningwild from New York.

« Last Edit: Saturday,March 02, 2019, 07:20:59 PM by matmacwac »

Offline BDA

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Re: 54/0651 My unexpected project.
« Reply #41 on: Monday,February 25, 2019, 01:14:44 PM »
I'm enjoying your reports of your restoration. I can really relate to talking with Michel. My high school French was no help at all. I decided to email him for the most part. I would write the message in English and let Google translate it and then paste that in the email. Then I would have Google translate his answer back to English. It worked fine except when I had to talk to him on the phone. It's really frustrating because you know he's trying really hard to speak intelligible English. He seems to be a very nice guy!

Sorry about your windshield. I didn't feel competent to do mine so I had a shop do it. It took me a long time to find one who would consider it and the guy they sent said he never wanted to do another one! I watched him and it didn't seem like that big a deal.  :confused: If I need another one, I might go with the pieces from r.d. and use butyl strips. Hopefully, that isn't something I need to worry about for a long time.

Offline matmacwac

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Re: 54/0651 My unexpected project.
« Reply #42 on: Monday,February 25, 2019, 01:34:40 PM »
Your right BDA. He is a warm, wise and gentle guy. I left there feeling like I had just spent time with Yoda.

He was trying to explain to me how he balanced the connecting rods. Words didn't work, so he took me over to his bench and showed me his 40 year old balance scale. I asked him how much difference one rod could be from another and he took two stock rods from the same engine and put them on the scale and it slammed to one side and he just smiled and looked at me. He explained that overall balance wasn't enough. He also balances them top to bottom.

When the second windshield arrived, I installed it with a new set of seals from RD Enterprises. I did a much better job the second time having learned what not to do. i used the proper tool for installing the chrome wedge strip and a liberal amount of silicone spray. It's not hard after you've broken one once.
« Last Edit: Monday,February 25, 2019, 01:36:41 PM by matmacwac »

Offline matmacwac

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Re: 54/0651 My unexpected project.
« Reply #43 on: Monday,February 25, 2019, 01:52:06 PM »
Nov 1, 2018
Tomorrow I go to pickup my engine from Michelle at Alpine America. So I spent the afternoon pulling the Renault 16 out of the car and separating the tranny because I promised Michelle that I would bring the clutch and friction plate for him to inspect them.

Offline matmacwac

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Re: 54/0651 My unexpected project.
« Reply #44 on: Monday,February 25, 2019, 02:33:42 PM »
Nov 2, 2018
The plan this time is to travel alone. I'll leave at a reasonable hour, get to Alpine America on the far side of Montreal by mid afternoon, pickup the engine, and get to my son's house in Ottawa to spend the night before heading home the next morning.
When I got to Michelle's, he had my engine waiting for me, all assembled and looking fantastic. It had bright new custom machined pulleys and new belts. The water pump and distributor had been refurbished and a replacement valve cover was installed and primed. I was very excited.
Michelle greeted me with a smile and proceeded to take me on a tour of my motor. As I've mentioned, there was a slight language barrier. He likes to show more than tell anyway.


So, to my horror, he started to remove the pulleys and belts and cover and distributor while explaining how I was going to reinstall them when I got home. So much for Plug and Play. What was I going to do? He was wise Yoda, Jedi Knight of engines. There is no try only do or do not.

He explained the proper start up procedure which involved disconnecting the ignition coil and cranking the engine until there was oil pressure after filling the engine with exactly 5 litres of Valvoline VR1 20W-50. Timing is set to 10Deg BTC.

I was to be on my own for figuring out the exhaust / muffler setup. I bought an exhaust header from him that he has custom made for him. He was adamant that there needed to be a minimum of 24" of pipe after the header and before the muffler. He said that this would likely require the elimination of the trunk.

We put my spare parts in a box, my new pulleys and other stuff that he removed in another box, tossed in the header and then he got a friend of his to help me lift the engine and place it on it's side in the back of my Jeep Wrangler. I gave him a huge envelope full of cash and he bid me farwell.

It was getting dark. I had spent way too much time in Alpine Nirvana. My son was expecting me for dinner. So I shot up onto the highway to Ottawa.
As soon as I hit highway speeds I realized I had a serious problem. The Jeep wouldn't steer worth a damn. When it did, it was violent as hell. I could tell that we had put the engine behind the rear wheels and in a 2 door Jeep with a single occupant in the rain, this wasn't good.

I pulled over, and had to move everything about in the pouring rain on the side of the highway. I was cold and soaked and late.

It was fun.
« Last Edit: Monday,February 25, 2019, 11:04:48 PM by matmacwac »