Pikington replacement windshields

[BobW]

Pilkington Classic seems the source recommended here for replacement glass. They have told me that they have one application for the Europa from '68 to '75, their pn HT00307. Is the glass the same regardless of the fitment method? Specifically, will it fit a car with the rubber windshield seal?

[SwiftDB4]

Yes it works on any Europa including S1 and early S2. I made the mistake of buying a Prosource Chinese one initially. Those are too narrow for rubber gasket applications.

[jbcollier]

+1, same windshield fits all the Europas... unless it's a cheap Chinese knock-off.

[BobW]

Thanks guys! The quoted price is now $390 plus $150 shipping to the lower 48.

[BDA]

Make sure you ask them if they have a depot in your area. I saved a bit of money on shipping because I picked mine up at their local depot.

[BDA]

I thought I would post about my recent experience having a new windshield put in.

Over the course of a couple of months, I looked for a windshield place who would take out my old windshield (It had a star in the area where I wanted to have a tint applied. The tint guy said the heat gun he uses would probably propagate a crack and he gave me a windshield guy to call - he wouldn't touch it.) I probably called two dozen windshield places in the area (I wonder if I missed any). Everybody was afraid to fool with it for some reason. I made sure to tell them that I had a replacement windshield and I only needed the old one removed and the new one installed. Still no takers.

This was more than a little annoying - especially since I didn't have any trouble finding a guy to put it in when I built the car. I called one guy who wouldn't guarantee that it wouldn't leak. I thanked him and called another guy who said he would do it. In the middle of his putting the windshield in, I told him about the first guy not willing to guarantee that it wouldn't leak. He said he wouldn't guarantee it either! In the end, everything went without a hitch and it never leaked. Unfortunately, I didn't keep his name and number!

I finally got someone who said they would do it. I think the girl I talked to didn't fully understand what I had because when they called to say they couldn't keep their first appointment, a guy called to say that he couldn't put the windshield in my truck!

When the guy finally came, he was none too happy. My windshield was installed with trim that is similar to the stock trim that is NLA. It took a while to get the windshield out and it seemed that the stock windshield trim made it more difficult. When it was finally out, the guy cleaned up around the windshield, replaced the rear view mirror button and used the black primer for the glue and and glued it in. Because of the trouble taking the trim out, the corners needed a bit of TLC.  r.d. sells new stock-type windshield molding (see attached picture) with matching corners for a lot of money. Even though it was Hagerty's (thie insurance company) money, I elected to use the chrome trim from Sportwing that 3929R wrote about in another thread (https://www.sportwing.com/Dawn-Enterprises-Inc/AB10014-S-All-Brite-Molding?sort=p.price&order=ASC&limit=100). I mistakenly thought that the trim was not a throwaway item so I couldn't justify asking Hagerty to pay for it. The Sportwing trim was not really a good fit. The gap between the glass and the body was wide enough that there wasn't sufficient area and the "lay" of surfaces wasn't good enough for the double stick tape on the trim to adhere properly so the installer put the majority on the bodywork and glued it to the windshield in a few places that were problematic. He was a good guy but he was NOT excited about doing my windshield again! I would say he was excited not to have to do it again!

The glue is still setting up so I don't really know how it will look but I think it will look fine. My real worry is that at speed, the wind might catch a piece of the trim and tear it out. It got me to thinking that getting the windshield in with the stock-type trim that r.d. sells would have been A LOT easier. I just looked in the workshop manual for how the windshield should be taken out - pushing the windshield out after the car was warmed up - but I'm not sure that would have worked as well as it did with the butyl strips that were used in the old days. At least my installer suggested that pushing on it from the inside wasn't a viable strategy when we were looking at it in the beginning.

So now I wonder what the truth is. If it is an insurance job, I think I will get r.d.'s trim and corners. From what I can tell, it looks really nice and should install a lot easier. But, I wonder if I'm right that using the stock-type trim makes it harder to get the windshield out. Has anyone here had experience taking out a windshield? Can you get it out without destroying the trim? Comments?

[GavinT]

G’day BDA.

Interesting story about the windshield.
I’ve only ever replaced one windshield under an insurance job. My insurance company provide a contact for our main windscreen replacement company (O’Briens) here in Oz. The windscreen people take care of the installation as well as the insurance claim paperwork etc.

Perhaps it works differently elsewhere because I wondered why you procured the windscreen and trim separately.
That may also explain the reluctance of fitters. They get all the responsibility/liability of the fitting and none of the profit from the windshield. It also wouldn’t surprise me to see the fitters being independent contractors and only paid “per fitting” so they don’t want to take on something foreign/unknown that may require an extended installation time.

Just looking at the trim pic, I presume that lip clips under the screen and the whole thing is dropped into the glue?
I ask because I’m pondering the viability of fibreglassing a surround/recess piece that would convert a Type 54 gasket fitting into the later glue-in system.

[EuropaTC]

Has anyone here had experience taking out a windshield? Can you get it out without destroying the trim? Comments?

The first time I resprayed my car back in the 80s I took the screen out and fitted the current one. The OEM screen leaked slightly and had gone milky around the edges so either the trim or the butyl strips had failed over the years.  Back then you could still get the correct trim so I just cut the old screen out and removal was probably helped by the fact it leaked so th ebutyl wasn't doing too good a job at sealing it in.  I concentrated on keeping the corner pieces intact because the were NLA even though the plastic trim was available. 

I didn't use butyl strip for the new one, I used gun applied mastic the same as fitters used for direct glazed screens back then.  To be honest I don't recall it being that difficult, I reckon it's easier to fit a direct glazed screen than the rubber gasketed Elan screen (which I did struggle with) so I  was surprised to hear that you had so much trouble finding  someone to fit it. Having said that, when I resprayed the car again in 2011 I left the screen in place 

GavinT - your description of fitting the screen is pretty much what I did only I used sealant instead of the butyl strip to hold the chrome plastic trim in place. If you're converting a rubber gasket shell to take a bonded screen there's a comment in the S2 manual about the modifications made to accommodate the bonded glass.

Brian

[GavinT]

If you're converting a rubber gasket shell to take a bonded screen there's a comment in the S2 manual about the modifications made to accommodate the bonded glass.

Yep, I've read the S2 manual but mine is a Type 54 which does not even have the recessed flange capable of accepting what Lotus refer to as a “direct glazed windscreen”. I understand that's one of the differences in the Type 65.

F'rinstance, with a Type 65, I expect the windscreen could be placed in that flange, dry and just sit there.
In a Type 54, there is no flange at all and the windscreen would fall into the car.

[jbcollier]

You have to fibreglass in the flange if you want to convert.

[BDA]

Gavin, I don't expect it works that much different in the States as opposed to Oz. My insurance company provided a supplier for a new windshield but they know about Pilkington. I think one of the things that scared people away was that it's a fiberglass car. I talked to people who prided themselves with doing classic cars but that meant Mustangs or maybe an MG. Rightly or wrongly, a Lotus is perceived as being a very different animal.

Brian, would you know if the mastic you used would soften and stretch when warm (like butyl)? And if so, can you still get it? Now a days a windshield installers use an "electric putty knife" that cuts the windshield out of the car. Besides the obvious benefit of reduced time cutting the windshield out, I wonder if the glue they use now is a lot stiffer and stronger than in the past.

I took the protective film off my trim and it looks pretty good. There a place or two where it's not positioned exactly right. It doesn't fit perfectly with the corners - but I knew that going in. It probably fits worse than the stock-like trim I had before but that had gotten cloudy and the foil in the trim was wrinkled in some places so I think it looks better over all.

[EuropaTC]

Brian, would you know if the mastic you used would soften and stretch when warm (like butyl)? And if so, can you still get it? Now a days a windshield installers use an "electric putty knife" that cuts the windshield out of the car. Besides the obvious benefit of reduced time cutting the windshield out, I wonder if the glue they use now is a lot stiffer and stronger than in the past.

I'm sorry BDA but I just can't remember what it was called, it was too long ago. Other than I bought it from a windscreen fitting place in Huddersfield (we were in Yorkshire then) and it was black and very sticky to get off where it wasn't wanted ! 

I'd imagine these days it's much easier to get something suitable. Last year I used "Tiger Seal" from Upol on the Elise which is also incredibly sticky and has a very high bond strength. Judging from the old stuff I had to remove it doesn't set rigid but retains slight flexibility like a tough rubber so I'd imagine it would work well for windscreens.

Brian

[cwtech]

I was thinking the windshield sealant is urethane based, not butyl.

Found this: https://www.3m.com/3M/en_US/company-us/all-3m-products/~/3M-Auto-Glass-Urethane-Windshield-Adhesive/?N=5002385+3293242009&rt=rud

[BDA]

Brian, the stuff the guy used on my windshield the other day sounds a lot like what you describe.

The  manual makes it sound like all you need to do is get the glass and butyl warm and push the windshield out. I wonder if any of the butyl tapes here (https://smile.amazon.com/s/?ref=nb_sb_ss_i_8_8?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=butyl+rubber+glue&sprefix=butyl+ru%2Caps%2C213&crid=3Q42I8Z6KJ8XG&rh=i%3Aaps%2Ck%3Abutyl+rubber+glue) wouldn't work like the manual describes and would be a lot easier to work with.

[gideon]

I removed the windscreen on my car a few weeks ago.  It was held in with butyl, probably the original buytl, and it was scary how easily it came out.  Also, that stuff is really messy, sticky stuff.  You'd be better off with bathroom silicone.